should britt start musk vs germans?

[bwinner]

You can start musk Imo but only if you want to play it age 2. That's definitly an option on RE and a lot easier than the pike start from diarouga (even though this VC timing is unbeatable if you do no misstake and you have decent hunts).
There is several ways to do it : 700w/700g/6musk is the all in version. The one I prefere most of the time is 700w (for a stable)/5v/6musk (to punish the age up). But you need to adapt aswell. The idea is to punish his age up with a musk/huss composition, which wins vs anything he Can have in age 2 and his 1st batch of age 3. The german player will probably try to use ww, so don't forger to have some lb (you don't need many, that's just to prevent him from infinit hit and run.

[Hazza54321]

I dont see 700 5v 6 musk being scary

[QueenOfdestiny]

I dont see 700 5v 6 musk being scary

I don't see you

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea 700/5/700 sounds better.

[bwinner]

You can't really do this Imo, because then you will need to chop wood for manors and this will be too late to punish the age up. With 6musk 3rd shipment you push when he wants to age so it's more anoying for him. If you want to play greedier I would rather use 600w...

[Garja]

700w 5v 700g 6 musk, or 700w 600w 5v 6 musks
The timing will hit when he's III already anyway.

[Hazza54321]

5v just before a timing makes no sense

[tedere12]

if you wanna play defensive turtle strat, start pike.
I start hus in this MU and transition to age2 or go to 3.

[[Armag] diarouga]

5v just before a timing makes no sense

It does.
The point is that 5vills>600w because first with 600w you won't get 5 manors. In addition, building the manors, although it grants you exp costs 200 VS (100 building and 100 waiting for the vills) that is to say almost one manor.

And 700w is actually enough wood. You get /60 pop, market upgrades and a rax by chopping wood, a stable and a 2nd rax+3 manors from 700w.
So with 700w/5v/700c you get more eco (2 more vills) than with 600w, and you're still /90 pop for your army, which is more than enough.

Besides, the timing hits one batch after 700c, so like 3 min after 5v, which is enough time for them to pay off.
It definitely a lot more sense than sending 4v first when you rush with otto xD

[Djigit]

if you wanna play defensive turtle strat, start pike.
I start hus in this MU and transition to age2 or go to 3.

The advantage is that your defense is much more mobile and you get more xp for training hussars. But I wonder what the others think of it as they pretty much all advocated an infantry start.

[tedere12]

if you wanna play defensive turtle strat, start pike.
I start hus in this MU and transition to age2 or go to 3.

The advantage is that your defense is much more mobile and you get more xp for training hussars. But I wonder what the others think of it as they pretty much all advocated an infantry start.

it's less greedy

[[Armag] diarouga]

if you wanna play defensive turtle strat, start pike.
I start hus in this MU and transition to age2 or go to 3.

I strongly disagree with huss start in every MU.

My theory is that if you start huss, you'll invest less in eco (because 5 huss are more expensive than 5 pikes or 5 lb of course), like 2 less manors ie vills, and the 5 huss won't make a difference.
Thus, instead of making 5 huss to defend raids, why not make 5 musks or 5 pikes, get 2 extra vills, add a stable, and train huss later?
You will have more eco and a stronger timing if you want to age 2, or a faster age3 if you want to play in age3.

[[Armag] diarouga]

if you wanna play defensive turtle strat, start pike.
I start hus in this MU and transition to age2 or go to 3.

The advantage is that your defense is much more mobile and you get more xp for training hussars. But I wonder what the others think of it as they pretty much all advocated an infantry start.

it's less greedy

How is huss start less greedy lol?
From huss start, you can all in (like make 15 hussars with low eco), in which case it's indeed better to start cav, but all in are bad, or timing, in which case starting cav is just weaker.

[Djigit]

if you wanna play defensive turtle strat, start pike.
I start hus in this MU and transition to age2 or go to 3.

The advantage is that your defense is much more mobile and you get more xp for training hussars. But I wonder what the others think of it as they pretty much all advocated an infantry start.

Hold on. Training hussars don't give you more xp. Is that a mistake from wikia? 6 xp vs 10 for 1 musk.
http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Hussar_(Age_of_Empires_III)
http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Musketeer

[deleted_user0]

IMO, start muskets for semi-ff
start huss for timed push. when you hit the german base hussars are more important than muskets because ww's are not very good in small numbers and you can add some LB's to snipe em

[Hazza54321]

5v just before a timing makes no sense

It does.
The point is that 5vills>600w because first with 600w you won't get 5 manors. In addition, building the manors, although it grants you exp costs 200 VS (100 building and 100 waiting for the vills) that is to say almost one manor.

And 700w is actually enough wood. You get /60 pop, market upgrades and a rax by chopping wood, a stable and a 2nd rax+3 manors from 700w.
So with 700w/5v/700c you get more eco (2 more vills) than with 600w, and you're still /90 pop for your army, which is more than enough.

Besides, the timing hits one batch after 700c, so like 3 min after 5v, which is enough time for them to pay off.
It definitely a lot more sense than sending 4v first when you rush with otto xD

theyre really gonna pay off in 1min arent they

[Djigit]

5v just before a timing makes no sense

It does.
The point is that 5vills>600w because first with 600w you won't get 5 manors. In addition, building the manors, although it grants you exp costs 200 VS (100 building and 100 waiting for the vills) that is to say almost one manor.

And 700w is actually enough wood. You get /60 pop, market upgrades and a rax by chopping wood, a stable and a 2nd rax+3 manors from 700w.
So with 700w/5v/700c you get more eco (2 more vills) than with 600w, and you're still /90 pop for your army, which is more than enough.

Besides, the timing hits one batch after 700c, so like 3 min after 5v, which is enough time for them to pay off.
It definitely a lot more sense than sending 4v first when you rush with otto xD

theyre really gonna pay off in 1min arent they

I think the idea is saving 1 shipment.

[Kaiserklein]

Huss are just the scariest unit as germany. Brits might be able to get solid batches out and win the cav war vs ger on ep, but that means a low eco start to get 5+5 huss early on. I think it works, but it's probably not the safest way for brits to play it, and you might have a hard time dealing with 5 dops mixed in the german army.

Huss semi probably just sucks because if you don't mass huss you're going to be behind in the cav war.

Pike start makes no sense imo because that unit is trash. Might as well make musks then. But a few pikes to defend raids before aging is ok.

If you stay colo, I think musk huss timing with a lot of huss is the best bet. Lbs are needed only if ger can get a decent mass of wws out, otherwise you can just kill these with your huss and musks in the back anyway. Lbs are overall awkward to push with and they can't be carded, so imo just stick to musk huss unless you really can't kill the wws.

In fort however, you kind of want to mass lbs because with the veterancy they will deal with vet uhlans and skirms pretty well. Then goons because they're better than musks, and huss as always.

[Gendarme]

How exactly are pikes trash? Seems like a very cost-efficient way to protect your economy (and perhaps siege a potentially exposed TP).

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea, 5 pikes are just fine because it holds raids for a very low cost, is helpful to siege a TP and still good for a timing. More than 5-10 sucks for age 2 timings though.

[deleted_user]

It's actually really dangerous making just 5 pike vs Germany. 9 uhlan can dps them down so EZ then your vulnerable VC build is seriously threatened and slowed down.

[[Armag] diarouga]

That's why you usually make 10 pikes when you semi ff.

[Garja]

andthat's why german makes more ulhans

[Djigit]

andthat's why german makes more ulhans

It's like shooting on his own foot.

[jgals]

I never understood why Germans makes so many ulan. It’s so much of an investment for a unit that is not very durable. It seems to me like Germans would always want to go bow pike whenever they could. But you see Germans sometimes eat their whole starting mines without even aging to three just making batch after batch especially in team