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I know a lot of people consider this a pretty hopeless matchup for Russia, but I was wondering if anyone has suggestions of how to play against age 2 and the FF.

resign

gibson wrote:resign

Funny, I just used that strat.

yea impossible

Hazza54321 wrote:yea impossible

Kaiser would win this

Vs FF your best bet is to 300w suvorov FF and build a TP/house with it. Ruskets vs jans and mams is still gonna lose but you get the chance to take out his canons.
Vs colo: do whatever you feel like.

Depends vs how good of a player you play. If otto is PR30+ then pretty impossible, even for H2O I would say. Otherwise, there's always a chance to raid/catch cannons/ etc. So I would guess try to go heavy on cav and raid hard, and when it's convenient just converge from 2-3 directions on his army and try to kill it.

Well it's unfair but not as hopeless as you guys think.
A top player can beat pr35 players in that MU, by outplaying a little.

You can actually beat age 2 otto by turtling, raiding, and hiting a boyard timing (although that's not easy).

ff is the real issue. You can either go for a ff (700w/700c), and then make only ruskets with the falc shipment (in which case it's all about the falc micro, if you kill the falcs or simply trade them it's possible to win), or rush. Iddle him a lot with a strel spam (do not make musks), and after he holds you should have a good eco, and you want to buy time (base trade, raid etc), and try to outmass him thanks to your eco. Something like 13 strels/5coss/700w does the job here.

Lain world would do the standard fast russia rush with making units train asap when you age so idling your tc perhaps for a bit. Sending 5 coss and training mostly only strelets if otto is only doing jan abus. I think I even have a record of the mu and how it plays out in age 2 but lain would skip vills to keep up in army so otto couldn't push so easy. As russia you would have to add a stable rather soon and use boyars with your mass of coss and strelets to take out or trade with ottos army. Coss do pretty good vs jans due to jans having only x2 vs cav. I know this can kind of sound stupid but otto kinda wants to take out the coss 1st with his abus as well due to jans taking to long to kill the coss that if otto mirco abus on strelets the coss can just walk right in his army and attack the abus while the jans are still trying to kill them. If that happens then you will be left with just jans vs strelets and thats what russia wants. Trading coss for abus.
With the fast rush I had to build a rax and an art right when I aged to get 5 abus and 5 jans out in time to not have any problems but if the otto player doesn't do that and waits for 700w to make an art you can just idle him(if no walls) and he can only make jans vs strelets so.
If otto FFs and doesn't wall ofc you do the same thing and just try to make sure he can't gather and make any other units. or you can try to ff and mass cav archers but yea.

That is the way I found to be the best as both sides you could say. But even with that said in age 2 war re otto should still win if he kites good enough as strelets only have 14 range.
Lain would show his army when I would try to siege the BH and I would just kite back as lains army was still good as the vill idling for more units. Repair bh and repeat for I would say 8 minutes lol then otto can just walk in and win. Also cm does well if you could maybe bait otto in if you still have an army after you lose your bh.

vs RE otto only hope is to ever outplay

I'd proxy stable, low players panic at cav in base, and otto like never build a stable, then defensive BH with select walls, use TC fire vs abus, whittle his eco, (pray)

Yea, lain goes for the rush way, or rather used to go. He was decent at it.

Blackstar_op russia vs Garja otto on gp :

https://youtu.be/2leYjJQ6Fek

Otto age two is tough but far from impossible for Russia. Otto can't take map early on and russia can poke a bit and then try to contain. Pure strel+coss with boyars should do okay vs Jan+abus, especially if otto player is forced to push out and fight under 2 bh. Versus jan+huss you probably want to go strelet+musk.

I agree with the otto FF being much harder for russia. Actually the game flontier posted shows this quite well, even though russia managed to come out on top in this one. The russia player can't really pressure before otto is already clicked up, and if he wants to idle he has to delete units to tower + tc fire.

Garja probably had that won if he didn't lose his hussars trying to raid, and also fighting with his jans before mamelukes arrived. Just the trades that russia needs at that point. Probably still had enough to defend the falcs, but just lost them way too easy trying to body block cossacks with mames instead of jans.

Blackstar was shipping spice trade over boyars when otto had falcs otw, but honestly i don't think russia realistically can stay colo for 15 minutes vs. any decent age3 otto timing. Imo he just won because of taking fights that should either never had happened or at least not turned out the way they did (just look at the value blackstar got from his own falcs later on)

imo otto should go for spahi in this mu over mams.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Well it's unfair but not as hopeless as you guys think.
A top player can beat pr35 players in that MU, by outplaying a little.

You can actually beat age 2 otto by turtling, raiding, and hiting a boyard timing (although that's not easy).

ff is the real issue. You can either go for a ff (700w/700c), and then make only ruskets with the falc shipment (in which case it's all about the falc micro, if you kill the falcs or simply trade them it's possible to win), or rush. Iddle him a lot with a strel spam (do not make musks), and after he holds you should have a good eco, and you want to buy time (base trade, raid etc), and try to outmass him thanks to your eco. Something like 13 strels/5coss/700w does the job here.

I though the same in the past but when I played for 2nd chance this MU vs hwoarang, (I was russia) I scouted 200g+tower in base so I sent for an ff but then he went for a fast all in revo and with this slow russian ff there was nothing I could do I felt :/

Age 2 you can outplay, age3 you can kill all their vills but still doesn’t matter cos you aint killing vet jan+falc then throw in mams and spahi and your ruskets wont even tickle ottos gooche

bwinner1 wrote:

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Well it's unfair but not as hopeless as you guys think.
A top player can beat pr35 players in that MU, by outplaying a little.

You can actually beat age 2 otto by turtling, raiding, and hiting a boyard timing (although that's not easy).

ff is the real issue. You can either go for a ff (700w/700c), and then make only ruskets with the falc shipment (in which case it's all about the falc micro, if you kill the falcs or simply trade them it's possible to win), or rush. Iddle him a lot with a strel spam (do not make musks), and after he holds you should have a good eco, and you want to buy time (base trade, raid etc), and try to outmass him thanks to your eco. Something like 13 strels/5coss/700w does the job here.

I though the same in the past but when I played for 2nd chance this MU vs hwoarang, (I was russia) I scouted 200g+tower in base so I sent for an ff but then he went for a fast all in revo and with this slow russian ff there was nothing I could do I felt :/

if u know hes gonna do it, you can fast oprix him. or a suvorov ff which hits with like 70 musks at 10m, should be just in time to stop the revo. but otto can easily do something else, which is actually one of its strengths, they are hard to scout and predict due to many options that all kinda look the same at start.

Ahah that game (and the whole series!) was so terrible.
Try some super all in stuff vs Otto FF and pray they don't adapt. Otherwise FF into full CA.

Try some super all in stuff and pray they don't adapt. Otherwise FF into full CA.

isn't that russia in every mu?

Nah.

Yah.

if otto do 400w ff, a russia strelet rush can work.
mass strelets can idle his vills, and 5+4 cossack can stop his 4 hussar and minutemen. otto can defenitely reach age 3, but he has no unit, no eco.

fei123456 wrote:if otto do 400w ff, a russia strelet rush can work.
mass strelets can idle his vills, and 5+4 cossack can stop his 4 hussar and minutemen. otto can defenitely reach age 3, but he has no unit, no eco.

Well yeah but russian fb is ez to scout so the ottoman guy will probably never 400w ff vs russian rush. Or he is playing badly if he does. Then you can try age 2 play without a fb, Idk about that. You can try aswell to base trade when he pushes with jan/falc since he won't be mobile, but you still need to find a way to kill his army at some point...

You should never 400w FF. The whole point of the FF is to lame a win with forcing play. You place the tower offensively if you're the aggressor or you put it in base if the opponent throws something at you.

against russia ye, 400w ff isn't an option. against other civs its fine or better.