Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Ashvin wrote:Is it Karni Mata which helped him gather resources as much as you did?
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It helped but it's mostly because he got a lot of crates while I got 3 huss from the consulate, 4 sowars, attack upgrades etc.
Iirc I was like up 8 vills.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Ashvin »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Ashvin wrote:Is it Karni Mata which helped him gather resources as much as you did?
Image

It helped but it's mostly because he got a lot of crates while I got 3 huss from the consulate, 4 sowars, attack upgrades etc.
Iirc I was like up 8 vills.

7 vills because you idled your TC when making the tp, he didn't. I was thinking of shipping native lore which removed coin costs from native upgrades but that seems like overkill, you send a 700res worth shipment only to save 300c.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Mitoe »

'Tis a good build. Would be better if the upgrade affected Flume and Ditching.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mitoe wrote:'Tis a good build. Would be better if the upgrade affected Flume and Ditching.

Flume and Ditching?
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Mitoe »

Tier 2 coin upgrade. I don't remember the exact maths, but basically this upgrade isn't affected by the Cherokee tech, and so it makes it only just barely worth it to get the TP for the upgrades alone. Perhaps it's not even worth it at all if you delay your market techs for too long for it.

You kinda need to get the vills from the Cherokee in order for it to be truly worth it as an Asian civ.

Well, that being said you kinda need to get the vills for it to be worth it as any civ. TWC civs don't have enough market upgrades (maybe farm upgrades as Iro); and Euro civs usually don't want to delay the market long enough for it to be worth it, or have to build a regular TP before the native TP, which definitely makes it not worth the delay.

Edit: Ok I'm bored enough to do the math I guess. You spend 200w and 100f 100c to get the tech, and then you save 330w total on your market upgrades. So, yeah it's just barely worth it considering that you get some xp back from constructing the TP and some LOS. If the game goes very long the cheaper rice paddy upgrades will be nice too.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Garja »

I believe the tech was intended for mills and plantation upgrades.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by deleted_user0 »

Mitoe wrote:Tier 2 coin upgrade. I don't remember the exact maths, but basically this upgrade isn't affected by the Cherokee tech, and so it makes it only just barely worth it to get the TP for the upgrades alone. Perhaps it's not even worth it at all if you delay your market techs for too long for it.

You kinda need to get the vills from the Cherokee in order for it to be truly worth it as an Asian civ.

Well, that being said you kinda need to get the vills for it to be worth it as any civ. TWC civs don't have enough market upgrades (maybe farm upgrades as Iro); and Euro civs usually don't want to delay the market long enough for it to be worth it, or have to build a regular TP before the native TP, which definitely makes it not worth the delay.

Edit: Ok I'm bored enough to do the math I guess. You spend 200w and 100f 100c to get the tech, and then you save 330w total on your market upgrades. So, yeah it's just barely worth it considering that you get some xp back from constructing the TP and some LOS. If the game goes very long the cheaper rice paddy upgrades will be nice too.


Eh why isnt that upgrade affected? Afaik it is. Or at least, it should be. Its a bug if not
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Mitoe »

Yeah, it was definitely overlooked by the devs.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Yes it's a bug. Hopefully next EP will fix it.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Kazamkikaz »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
bwinner1 wrote:How good are the cheerokee nativs once you have the TP ? Because if they are as good as skirm you can just make them in the begining and save a military building with some civ.

I think they're like skirms, but you don't want skirms when you semi ff or play India.

bit tanker but super low attack (230 HP and 13 range damage), i am thinking why build cherokee TP and wait the cherokee basket weaving up is done to be able for start market ups, and probably u need 4 vills up first (Sequoyah's Cherokee Syllabary 200w 200c)
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Gendarme »

Don't Cherokee have only 16 range?
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Kazamkikaz »

Gendarme wrote:Don't Cherokee have only 16 range?

yup, so we dont know for what cherokee rifleman can be useful
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Gendarme »

Useful if you are not planning on microing
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by jgals »

well it gives you acess to the settler shipment doesnt it? so building a cherokee post seems like a good idea if you have the wood
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

jgals wrote:well it gives you acess to the settler shipment doesnt it? so building a cherokee post seems like a good idea if you have the wood

It's not that easy. The 4 settlers take ages, and it costs 400w/200c if you count the TP, which is super expensive. So it has to be part of your build order, you can't just randomly spend 400w/200c.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by macacoalbino »

You haven't been a lieutenant for a long time, huh? @Diarouga
I feel like after every single fight I got 800w floating after i just lost all of my army :kinggreen: it would be nice to get some vilies from it haha
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

macacoalbino wrote:You haven't been a lieutenant for a long time, huh? @Diarouga
I feel like after every single fight I got 800w floating after i just lost all of my army :kinggreen: it would be nice to get some vilies from it haha

I've been a lieutenant for a long time, but not because of my macro. I don't remember having 800w in bank. Anyway, this thread was about viable builds, not about fixing macro besides.
Furthermore, after a fight you most likely don't want 4vills who come 2min later (in fact you'd rather need pikes or xbows lol), and you've probably already lost your explorer anyway.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by jgals »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
jgals wrote:well it gives you acess to the settler shipment doesnt it? so building a cherokee post seems like a good idea if you have the wood

It's not that easy. The 4 settlers take ages, and it costs 400w/200c if you count the TP, which is super expensive. So it has to be part of your build order, you can't just randomly spend 400w/200c.

that sucks mb buff on EP or make 4 vils come with some kind of medicine buff for the rest of the game like jesuits.

i think nat posts should be buffed a bit to make them more viable on EP. at least you would get a lot more noobs playing
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

jgals wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
jgals wrote:well it gives you acess to the settler shipment doesnt it? so building a cherokee post seems like a good idea if you have the wood

It's not that easy. The 4 settlers take ages, and it costs 400w/200c if you count the TP, which is super expensive. So it has to be part of your build order, you can't just randomly spend 400w/200c.

that sucks mb buff on EP or make 4 vils come with some kind of medicine buff for the rest of the game like jesuits.

i think nat posts should be buffed a bit to make them more viable on EP. at least you would get a lot more noobs playing

Buffing the natives is against the EP goal (don't change the game too much).
Anyway, as we agreed previously in this thread, the Cherokee TP is very good in some MU if you add it to the build (like in the recs I posted), but you just can't randomly get the 4v because it won't be worth.
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Re: Discussion: Cherokee native upgrade

Post by Sejwoonapiggle »

I feel like the Cherokee native units aren't really great to use and incorporate in your army. They have their niche but are somewhat expensive and there are better units. I'm really on the fence when it comes to them, and tend not to use them.

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