What to do vs atp civ in high plain using French

[Kazamkikaz]

How to deal with atp strategie (Spain and Portugal basically) if you are playing with French?
Should i take 2 tps instead of 1 at the beginning and market upgrades in transition?
Should i start 10 pikes to deal with tps ? 1 barrack ?
How to destroy the tps fast and take the line and keep it in your control?
In case you playing in other map with good tp line but no 200w start (i don't remember any map )

[[Armag] diarouga]

Hey!
1) You should definitely take more TPs on High Plains, regardless of whether or not your opponent is going to go for ATP.
Most players (especially under pr35) struggle to adapt to the different maps, and High Plains is a map where TPs are key. They're key because if you don't take them your opponent is going to win thanks to stagecoach, and taking them doesn't hurt you. In fact, I'd say it helps you.
So, you should definitely take one TP while aging, and the 2nd one either during the transition too (as France you can do TP+market+TP while aging), or from the 400w. With 2 TPs you're just going to be fine.

2) 10 pikes seems to be a good idea but it's not. Your opponent is just going to make 5 musks (or even 5 dogs will do the job) and he will hold his TPs. I'd say that contesting ATP in general isn't a great idea because it is a huge investment (you'd need at least 20 musks) and it's just 120w for him after all.
In my opinion, the best way to contest the TP line is to age, send the 2 falcs shipment, and take the TP line.

All in all, I'd say that something like should do the job:
Age1: If 200w start TP, else market, age with 14v
Transi: If market build 2 TPs, do the gold up and save 125w. If TP go market, 1st food up, 2nd TP, gold up and save 125w.
Age2: Go for the 2nd food up, send 4v and build a rax and 2 houses. Train 5 musks to be safe. Then 700c/700w and age.
Age3: 2 falcs 1st, then 1000w, get the TP line and then win thanks to your superior eco.

[Hazza54321]

better off stealing 2 and aging and being agressive with falcs early

[gibson]

Also abuse ur native scout. You know he's gonna be on the tps at approx 3 minutes so get some free damage in and if he's taken some damage from early treasures you may be able to contain him so that he can't leave the tp shooting radius or if he's sloppy maybe even kill him

[deleted_user0]

Best thing vs atp = nats from tres. Use scout + explorer to hunt down his. Then use nat to kill a vill, maybe 2. Then he sent atp for 1 tp. You can use a cdb to build 1 tp. And explorer for the other.

[macacoalbino]

May I add one question, what about in a map like Mendocino (4tps), I end up not being able to take more than 1tp often, what should I do then, just ff and falcs as rouga said? If so, should I do musk falc initially or just go for skirm+ goons anyway?

[Hazza54321]

skirm goons anyway, if he atps it means hes slower to fortress so u can make something happen with your skirm advantage and early falcs (vs ports they only have 2 organs) and if spain wants to defend it they have slow age to age 3

[Garja]

Rush his base (still a bit risky if he goes colo ATP) or take 2 TPs and age. Then can use falcs+1k wood to take the TP line back.
It's hard to lame nats etc. vs spain because of dogs.

[macacoalbino]

Now one debate question, which civ you think is favoured in both these maps (HP and Mendocino) Fre v Port/Spain?
(I have been away for some time, I have no idea how these MUs have been doing in tourneys)

[Hazza54321]

i think france is solid vs both, people make the mistake of 1kwing first vs atp which is just retarded because youre giving them time with 16vills extra eco

[Amsel_]

I'd probably do some sort of 2 TP FF. He probably still has an advantage; but with falcs it's easier to push his base, or steal those stagecoach TPs. I'm not really confident in France's ability to defeat someone in age 2, if they have a nice TP line set up giving them extra resources, especially Portugal with those two TCs.

[Kazamkikaz]

Rush his base (still a bit risky if he goes colo ATP) or take 2 TPs and age. Then can use falcs+1k wood to take the TP line back.
It's hard to lame nats etc. vs spain because of dogs.

I lost the game cause i did market first even with 200w (forgot TP) and 2 tp in trans, and also fb 5pikes start and musks but he just massed musks in 2 rax, probably he did 700w 700f shipments bo and tps in coin.

[fei123456]

If the map is high plains and there's an ATP in his deck, you can suppose he'll do this.
Chop a lot during transition, build two TP as well.
He then can only build 3 TPs, and he can't siege your TP early. If he stay age 2 and train pikes, you're already in age 3.

[bwinner]

Hey!
1) You should definitely take more TPs on High Plains, regardless of whether or not your opponent is going to go for ATP.
Most players (especially under pr35) struggle to adapt to the different maps, and High Plains is a map where TPs are key. They're key because if you don't take them your opponent is going to win thanks to stagecoach, and taking them doesn't hurt you. In fact, I'd say it helps you.
So, you should definitely take one TP while aging, and the 2nd one either during the transition too (as France you can do TP+market+TP while aging), or from the 400w. With 2 TPs you're just going to be fine.

2) 10 pikes seems to be a good idea but it's not. Your opponent is just going to make 5 musks (or even 5 dogs will do the job) and he will hold his TPs. I'd say that contesting ATP in general isn't a great idea because it is a huge investment (you'd need at least 20 musks) and it's just 120w for him after all.
In my opinion, the best way to contest the TP line is to age, send the 2 falcs shipment, and take the TP line.

All in all, I'd say that something like should do the job:
Age1: If 200w start TP, else market, age with 14v
Transi: If market build 2 TPs, do the gold up and save 125w. If TP go market, 1st food up, 2nd TP, gold up and save 125w.
Age2: Go for the 2nd food up, send 4v and build a rax and 2 houses. Train 5 musks to be safe. Then 700c/700w and age.
Age3: 2 falcs 1st, then 1000w, get the TP line and then win thanks to your superior eco.

Do you build more musk in transi ? Ik this isn't the best unit for an age 3, but they might ne usefull to protect this early falcs I guess

[[Armag] diarouga]

Hey!
1) You should definitely take more TPs on High Plains, regardless of whether or not your opponent is going to go for ATP.
Most players (especially under pr35) struggle to adapt to the different maps, and High Plains is a map where TPs are key. They're key because if you don't take them your opponent is going to win thanks to stagecoach, and taking them doesn't hurt you. In fact, I'd say it helps you.
So, you should definitely take one TP while aging, and the 2nd one either during the transition too (as France you can do TP+market+TP while aging), or from the 400w. With 2 TPs you're just going to be fine.

2) 10 pikes seems to be a good idea but it's not. Your opponent is just going to make 5 musks (or even 5 dogs will do the job) and he will hold his TPs. I'd say that contesting ATP in general isn't a great idea because it is a huge investment (you'd need at least 20 musks) and it's just 120w for him after all.
In my opinion, the best way to contest the TP line is to age, send the 2 falcs shipment, and take the TP line.

All in all, I'd say that something like should do the job:
Age1: If 200w start TP, else market, age with 14v
Transi: If market build 2 TPs, do the gold up and save 125w. If TP go market, 1st food up, 2nd TP, gold up and save 125w.
Age2: Go for the 2nd food up, send 4v and build a rax and 2 houses. Train 5 musks to be safe. Then 700c/700w and age.
Age3: 2 falcs 1st, then 1000w, get the TP line and then win thanks to your superior eco.

Do you build more musk in transi ? Ik this isn't the best unit for an age 3, but they might ne usefull to protect this early falcs I guess

Against Spain it's an option to consider. You don't have to, but musks are great to deal with the ton of shit Spain can spam (pikes/rods/4huss from the age up etc). Against Port however, I wouldn't do it, because they're not going to have huss (and you'll have 5 goons anyway), and musks aren't that great to deal with goons anyway, so you'd rather want skirm, so no, just keep your resources.