Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

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Portugal Kazamkikaz
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Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Kazamkikaz »

Amalgamation (requires placer mines) and silversmith=+40% gather rate for coin mines.
How good this combination can be, or how bad ?

I just compared Standard French Semi 5 Hussars FF (aging up with 14 vills at 3:05, 1 TP, hunting dogs + placer mines and 125 in queue for Steel Trapes, card order: 3CDBs, 4 CDBs, 700w, 700c) with French Semi FF 5 Musketeers, same things as 5 huss semi ff age 1 but exchange 700c with silversmith (setlers gather coin from mines 20% faster) and make amalgamation upgrade with 700w.

-First case i age up to Fortress Age around 8:39 (about 1965 f with 16 CDB and 327c with 9 vill in bank);
-In second case i age up to Fortress around 8:35 (around 1525f and 400c in bank)

At first look, you might say this is terrible idea, but taking a good look, you can just think maybe can works sometimes LOL cause you have more 40% coin gather rate to make the expensive coin units from age 3 (skirm 50f/75c, dragoon 90f/90c and cuir 150f/150c)

This can be adpated and done by german and in this particular case is much worthwhile since all german military units is expensive in coin (Ulhan 50f/100c, dopp 75f/125c, skirm 50f/65c and ww 150f/150c) and german has extra mercenary cards

Cons:
* You don't receive extra XP using 200w from 700w shipment in coin upgrade, not the same way if you build 2 houses or extra
barrack;
* You use alot VS colleting that "free 700c" from coin mines;
* Your coin mines run out faster;
*If opponent keep making colonial army and attacking, and you still want age up to Fortress, you'll be in bad position to gather that extra 700c from mine.

Pros:
*You make the expensive cuirassier (ww in case of german) much easier;
*You need less vills in coin, so you collet more food cause you put extra vills in food;
*At some point you collet more resource than your opponent cause of 40% extra coin upgrade and extra vills in food.
* You can buy wood and food with more confidence :uglylol:

I know it's crazy ah ? what is your opinion ?
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Italy Garja
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Garja »

It's like spice trade. Between the two spice trade seems better because more vills on food and because of berries.
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Portugal Kazamkikaz
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Kazamkikaz »

Garja wrote:It's like spice trade. Between the two spice trade seems better because more vills on food and because of berries.

It isn't exactly same thing cause normaly you will gather alot food than coin if you have extra 20% gather food rate upgrade and "more vills on food", you can't just collet alot food and sell food for coin all the time isn't cost effective and with silversmith i'm thinking in different option to age up to fortress but works well in colonial too
But ya spice trade is better for some eco in colonial age.
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Kaiserklein »

Basically, this kind of card takes a long time to pay off. How long is it until it's worth 700g? It's basically a trickle of 0.12g/sec/vil on gold, so with like 15v on coin it's 1.8g/sec, which means it takes around 6 min 30 for this card to pay off. It's just too slow imo. And then when it starts paying off, you're starting to run out of coin :/
Amalgamation is much more relevant, since it's only 400 res and not 700 res, for the same 20%. I actually believe this works in some match ups (especially for germany), maybe from the 700w if really passive game, or from 1000w in fortress.
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Garja »

You can send spice trade and put more vills on gold, it's basically the same. There is a bit of an advantage with silversmith in midgame I guess because then you can keep the 50-50 food/gold vill split. But then again eco theory would be probably a better choice because it carries on all resources and also affects all vills no matter which res.
In any case it's rare for French to need more greedy options in their build. And usually when that's the case it generally means 600w for stagecoach or fish boom which are both superior. I suppose this can be a niche build for no TP map and greedy situation, same thing for spice trade.
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Mitoe »

Spice trade is a better card than Silversmith simply because of how many more hunts than mines there are on any map. You have to burn through 2 full mines before Silversmith becomes better than 700c, at which point there may not even be many easily accessible mines left, and you would've been better off sending something else to give you more tempo.
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Turkey HUMMAN
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by HUMMAN »

Yeah if map has 50.000 gold it maybe worth, other than that 700c is a good shipment actually in a sense 1/3 of a mine, 1k gold half mine.
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by princeofkabul »

Unfortunately, these kind of cards are rather useless. You can always send royal mint which is rather common in french decks and it has better % and plantations are affected aswell.
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Austria supahons
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by supahons »

It's a really good card for the gold only scenario (idk the name) or FWG scenario (enough mines). Temporary upgrades are usually just too bad because of better alternatives/ the resources on the map.

There is a map in aoe2, if sb wants to create a fun map for this card ;) http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Gold_Rush
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by duckzilla »

Some maps (Deccan/Yukon/Siberia?) have one or even multiple gold mines with 5k gold each. I guess for these maps, the card can be worth it when the gold mines are relatively close to your starting area.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Kazamkikaz »

Any way my idea is wrong if you think about send silversmith card to age up cause you have to collet 700c from mines and to age up faster, same way if you send 700c you must take alot vills from food to exchange to coin, but how about in a colonial agenda musk +cav combo u send this card and with amalgamation you just need focus on food and probably you will be able to make army from 2 stables and 2 barracks at some point LOL, i will test my teory
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by princeofkabul »

duckzilla wrote:Some maps (Deccan/Yukon/Siberia?) have one or even multiple gold mines with 5k gold each. I guess for these maps, the card can be worth it when the gold mines are relatively close to your starting area.


hispaniola and yukon prolly the best for sending it.
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Kaiserklein »

Mongolia too
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Jaeger »

princeofkabul wrote:
duckzilla wrote:Some maps (Deccan/Yukon/Siberia?) have one or even multiple gold mines with 5k gold each. I guess for these maps, the card can be worth it when the gold mines are relatively close to your starting area.


hispaniola and yukon prolly the best for sending it.

Aurucania is spice trade + silver smith DREAM
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Garja »

california has like 5x times more gold than any other map lol
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Jaeger »

Garja wrote:california has like 5x times more gold than any other map lol

Really? I'm pretty sure Aurucania has at least like 8-10 mines, many of them gold
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by Garja »

None of the araucania spawns have a single gold mine ^_^
I think people too often mistake copper mines for gold ones.
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Re: Discussion: amalgamation + silversmith

Post by princeofkabul »

oh yeah forgot california. araucania has no gold mines ya
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