Winning warchief mirrors iro az

[CruxioVeritas]

Seems like the way that these mirrors are won is by switching to cav/coyo at the right time. This seems to be really hard with iro since their cav is expensive and requires another building, but it seems like the way a lot of these mirror are won . I guess with iro you could also ff? But imo there is the main weakness that as soon as you age late the opponent will know what’s up. How do you win these mirrors? What about with Sioux? Does full infantry beat full cav in a Sioux mirror?ialways figures their infantry is not good enough

[Gendarme]

Iro's late colonial infantry is very strong. You don't really need a cav switch.

[CruxioVeritas]

Iro's late colonial infantry is very strong. You don't really need a cav switch.

Do you mean after you send the conscription card or whatever with 10% both stats? Or do people usually send the other inf upgrades too? I figure if I have a shipment available at that point I’d rather send 600 coin and age

[Kazamkikaz]

Seems like the way that these mirrors are won is by switching to cav/coyo at the right time. This seems to be really hard with iro since their cav is expensive and requires another building, but it seems like the way a lot of these mirror are won . I guess with iro you could also ff? But imo there is the main weakness that as soon as you age late the opponent will know what’s up. How do you win these mirrors? What about with Sioux? Does full infantry beat full cav in a Sioux mirror?ialways figures their infantry is not good enough

Full Sioux infantry rarely beat Full cav in a Sioux mirror cause you have also cards of Dog Soldier and Bow Rider is the best (my opinion) Sioux's colonial unit.
My advice is if you need a unit make it, don't try make sometimes that is worse just because is cheaper unless is cost effective
So don't stop make Kanya Horseman or any other cav just because is more expensive than infantry.
Imagine if your iroque Tomahawk and Aenna rush fails and your opponent is in age 3 with mass of Forest Prowler, you will keep make aenna cause is the best colonial infantry to deal with Forest Prowler or you will make Kanya ?

Also you can split cavs in alot groups to raid constantly and force your opponent split his infantry who walks slower to try defend vs raid.

One of the few ways to win with just infantry is rushing with just janisaries vs a noob or you and your opponent decide go only infantry like british musk mirror.

If there is a unit that kills both heavy and light infantry, you need cav are any other unit to deal with this unit so no other way.

[fei123456]

In iro vs aztec MU i usually build stable asap. 600w-4 kanya-7 aenna. You should not "switch to cav": you need cav early to beat mass mace.

And i guess aztec will start coyote too. Puma+mace siege rush may destroy the warhut, but if you failed, you'll have no chance to win.

Infantry rush is available in sioux mirror. But you'll need to switch to bow rider mass in late colonial.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Seems like the way that these mirrors are won is by switching to cav/coyo at the right time. This seems to be really hard with iro since their cav is expensive and requires another building, but it seems like the way a lot of these mirror are won . I guess with iro you could also ff? But imo there is the main weakness that as soon as you age late the opponent will know what’s up. How do you win these mirrors? What about with Sioux? Does full infantry beat full cav in a Sioux mirror?ialways figures their infantry is not good enough

Hey,
I don't have a lot of experience in Iro mirrors, but from what I've seen (pkclan recs), you can't really ff because the rush is just too strong. It is indeed important to switch cav at the right time, and that's why the standard build order for this match up is 4kanyas (because you need to secure your fb) and then 600w for the stable and some kanyas :) You only want to make aennas from your rax until you reach late colonial.
If you want nice recs, go to pkclan.net TAD tournament, and you'll find plenty

About Sioux mirrors, on the RE (the normal patch), going infantry isn't viable (it can work as a suprise but if it is expected and your opponent reacts, it's not going to work), because bow riders just beat everything. On the EP however, since bow riders got nerfed and infantry buffed, I'd say that both cav starts and infantry starts are viable till someone figures out the best way to play the MU.
I'm afraid you want find any relevant rec of this MU.

Aztec mirrors are different, because in early game you actually want to make coyotes, so "switching to coyo at the right time" isn't a thing. By the way, Aztec mirrors are a lot more complicated than what people think, and are completely misplayed, so there aren't a lot of recs to watch if you want to learn that MU.

[fei123456]

puma has high damage, but they do only 3* damage to coyote (while 5* to cavalry). a puma kills a coyote with 5 hits, which is relative slow; while mace kills puma fast. that's why people usually spam coyotes and send 10+9 mace.
however, the 3 jaguar from TC big button are quite useful: at least they have 230 hp. 10 mace can't kill a jaguar with 1 volley.

[[Armag] diarouga]

however, the 3 jaguar from TC big button are quite useful: at least they have 230 hp. 10 mace can't kill a jaguar with 1 volley.

Yes but low dps iirc.

[Garja]

Jag BB is quite expensive and the unit it's basically just a big pike. The only real perk is that it counter both coyo and puma so it can be jammed in effectively. Also only 3 of them make it bad. They become way better when in mass (base stats are actually quite good).
Anyway, Iro and Az mirrors are about map control. That's because fast age up punishes WH age up in 90% of cases and then both civs are stuck in colonial so they need to battle for resources. Cav are indeed useful but there isn't really a very precise moment where you cav switch. Aztec mirrors actually are usually just coyo spam for a while.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Aztec mirrors actually are usually just coyo spam for a while.

Yeah, although it's not the best way.

[Youssef]

what about sioux mirror? full br colonial play? ff? br semi ff?

[Gendarme]

BR baby

[[Armag] diarouga]

what about sioux mirror? full br colonial play? ff? br semi ff?

Surely not ff/semi ff unless it's a very defensive map. On the RE it's full BR, and on the EP you can pick full br or full inf I think.
.

[aligator92]

To me the Jaguar big button is almost entirely useless
1. they cost only food which is you might be short on when making a lot of coyo
2. they queue behind vills and not alongside them like MM (which means sending and cancelling will screw up your vill production unlike MM)
3. they take pretty long to actually send so the battle might be decided or your opponent already retreated again
4. they are slow and dont do too much damage to coyos (so even 5 mace can pick them off easily)

[[Armag] diarouga]

To me the Jaguar big button is almost entirely useless
1. they cost only food which is you might be short on when making a lot of coyo
2. they queue behind vills and not alongside them like MM (which means sending and cancelling will screw up your vill production unlike MM)
3. they take pretty long to actually send so the battle might be decided or your opponent already retreated again
4. they are slow and dont do too much damage to coyos (so even 5 mace can pick them off easily)

They're good if you can pop them from a building your opponent is sieging.

[gibson]

The jags aren't good or cost efficient in and of themselves but they're good cause it's just one more thing you can pop if you need.

[deleted_user]

Jags offer significant defenders advantage in the coyote mirr.

[fei123456]

jaguar are AGE 3 units in age 2. that's all.

[Hazza54321]

Jags are only good in small close fights

[jgals]

yeah in my experience in all matchups jag can turn any close fight easily. They tank quite a bit and cause units to go into melee since they are somewhat faster than your average infantry. Also they have multipliers vs cav so they can beat a 3 cav shipment or something like that. At least tank a lot of damage from cav before dying and give mace more chance to shoot. But All the BB should only be used later game if possible IMO after sending old ways.