BlackStar_OP FI Japanese

22k · Post by **22k** » 08 Jul 2015, 23:03

Anyone know how this strategy works? its brutal =/

gibson · Post by **gibson** » 08 Jul 2015, 23:24

I know what if an fi works against you in a fairly balanced mu you're not doing something right, so I doubt it's too brutal tbh

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 09 Jul 2015, 04:59

Id put my money on you losing to the classical Japan FI over you beating it, Gibson. Its definitely a brutal strat. Not sure if thats what OP is referring to though.

Here is a great guide bart wrote:http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=15,38331,0,10

iNcog · Post by **iNcog** » 09 Jul 2015, 09:03

Anyone want to write it up on these forums? Copy/pasta bart's work

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Marco1698 · Post by **Marco1698** » 09 Jul 2015, 09:18

I don't know this strategy but I think it's risky and good

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 09 Jul 2015, 23:57

I always wonder why the Japan FI went out of favor. I'm not sure if its super good at the highest level, but its still one of the lamest strats in the game. I love doing it, you just don't need any skill for it. With 30 apm you can actually beat players that play at actual fast speeds and have good mechancis. Ive even beaten better players with it playing with just one hand (without hotkeys) lol. It was also the reason I didnt play vs Japan anymore before I quit the game (back then it was the meta for 1st lts - lt colonels).

@incog I can try to get it on here tomorrow, though it'd be better if bart did it (it is, after all, his guide)

22k · Post by **22k** » 10 Jul 2015, 02:32

gibson..... you always loose for me... what are you saying man?

i can put my car in a bet me vs you

sure you can remember me, and i dont play otto/iro LAME.

Goodspeed · Post by **Goodspeed** » 10 Jul 2015, 10:42

What does any of that have to do with anything? He was talking about the Japan FI which by the way is the subject of the thread that you chose yourself.

He's also right. Jp FI is a build that will only work in some situations and generally as an anti-meta play but if you are losing to it consistently you are doing something wrong. Try attacking early.

Don't forget the distinction between an FI and just an IV age up to close out a game where you have an advantage but is hard to finish in fortress. I would imagine this is usually the way BSOP uses the age up, not necessarily as a planned FI.

KINGofOsmane · Post by **KINGofOsmane** » 10 Jul 2015, 10:46

i have like 3 kinds of fi in my mind but bs doesnt do much fi

gibson · Post by **gibson** » 10 Jul 2015, 12:52

jerom wrote:Id put my money on you losing to the classical Japan FI over you beating it, Gibson. Its definitely a brutal strat. Not sure if thats what OP is referring to though.

Here is a great guide bart wrote:http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&'f=15,38331,0,10

I''ll play you, you do it and I''ll beat you lol. The only civ that I think it''s logical to do an fi with is port because you have the extra town centers and cm so you can easily hold, plus two heavy cannons >' four flying arrows. I don''t see why you would do an fi as Japan. Even if you make it to industrial with no army in your base, you''ve given up map control and 5 pikes running around and your shrine count is going to be insanely low as well. Sure, industrial shipments are strong, but 14 ashi aren''t going to make a difference against the huge mass brit is gonna have at 11 minutes and you can''t afford to send 4 flaming arrow unless you have a decent mass yourself or they''ll the die to like five hussar. Idk maybe it''s viable if your opponent just stays in their base and does nothing, but if your playing someone of a similar skill level who isn''t playing as Dutch or port I can''t really see it working.

KINGofOsmane · Post by **KINGofOsmane** » 10 Jul 2015, 12:58

gibson wrote:
jerom wrote:Id put my money on you losing to the classical Japan FI over you beating it, Gibson. Its definitely a brutal strat. Not sure if thats what OP is referring to though.

Here is a great guide bart wrote:http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&'f=15,38331,0,10
Ill play you, you do it and Ill beat you lol. The only civ that I think its logical to do an fi with is port because you have the extra town centers and cm so you can easily hold, plus two heavy cannons >' four flying arrows. I dont see why you would do an fi as Japan. Even if you make it to industrial with no army in your base, youve given up map control and 5 pikes running around and your shrine count is going to be insanely low as well. Sure, industrial shipments are strong, but 14 ashi arent going to make a difference against the huge mass brit is gonna have at 11 minutes and you cant afford to send 4 flaming arrow unless you have a decent mass yourself or theyll the die to like five hussar. Idk maybe its viable if your opponent just stays in their base and does nothing, but if your playing someone of a similar skill level who isnt playing as Dutch or port I cant really see it working.

lets 1v1 and i show you ?

gibson · Post by **gibson** » 10 Jul 2015, 13:01

kingofosmane wrote:
gibson wrote:Ill play you, you do it and Ill beat you lol. The only civ that I think its logical to do an fi with is port because you have the extra town centers and cm so you can easily hold, plus two heavy cannons >' four flying arrows. I dont see why you would do an fi as Japan. Even if you make it to industrial with no army in your base, youve given up map control and 5 pikes running around and your shrine count is going to be insanely low as well. Sure, industrial shipments are strong, but 14 ashi arent going to make a difference against the huge mass brit is gonna have at 11 minutes and you cant afford to send 4 flaming arrow unless you have a decent mass yourself or theyll the die to like five hussar. Idk maybe its viable if your opponent just stays in their base and does nothing, but if your playing someone of a similar skill level who isnt playing as Dutch or port I cant really see it working.
lets 1v1 and i show you ?

What rank are you? If your like a lt colonel or something theres no point because youll obviously be able to pull it off just because of skill difference.

KINGofOsmane · Post by **KINGofOsmane** » 10 Jul 2015, 13:03

then there is no point lel

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 10 Jul 2015, 13:11

jap FI doesn't work if the opponent is playing correctly

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 10 Jul 2015, 14:03

gibson wrote:
jerom wrote:Id put my money on you losing to the classical Japan FI over you beating it, Gibson. Its definitely a brutal strat. Not sure if thats what OP is referring to though.

Here is a great guide bart wrote:http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&'f=15,38331,0,10
Ill play you, you do it and Ill beat you lol. The only civ that I think its logical to do an fi with is port because you have the extra town centers and cm so you can easily hold, plus two heavy cannons >' four flying arrows. I dont see why you would do an fi as Japan. Even if you make it to industrial with no army in your base, youve given up map control and 5 pikes running around and your shrine count is going to be insanely low as well. Sure, industrial shipments are strong, but 14 ashi arent going to make a difference against the huge mass brit is gonna have at 11 minutes and you cant afford to send 4 flaming arrow unless you have a decent mass yourself or theyll the die to like five hussar. Idk maybe its viable if your opponent just stays in their base and does nothing, but if your playing someone of a similar skill level who isnt playing as Dutch or port I cant really see it working.

Id be willing to bet all my betting points on beating you 5-0 with this strat. You are seriously underestimating it.. Maybe its an idea to try it out yourself and see how strong it is before you judge. Have you even read the guide I linked?

gibson · Post by **gibson** » 10 Jul 2015, 16:42

jerom wrote:
gibson wrote:Ill play you, you do it and Ill beat you lol. The only civ that I think its logical to do an fi with is port because you have the extra town centers and cm so you can easily hold, plus two heavy cannons >' four flying arrows. I dont see why you would do an fi as Japan. Even if you make it to industrial with no army in your base, youve given up map control and 5 pikes running around and your shrine count is going to be insanely low as well. Sure, industrial shipments are strong, but 14 ashi arent going to make a difference against the huge mass brit is gonna have at 11 minutes and you cant afford to send 4 flaming arrow unless you have a decent mass yourself or theyll the die to like five hussar. Idk maybe its viable if your opponent just stays in their base and does nothing, but if your playing someone of a similar skill level who isnt playing as Dutch or port I cant really see it working.
Id be willing to bet all my betting points on beating you 5-0 with this strat. You are seriously underestimating it.. Maybe its an idea to try it out yourself and see how strong it is before you judge. Have you even read the guide I linked?

No I havent read it..... Next time I see you online wanna play one?

bart331 · Post by **bart331** » 10 Jul 2015, 18:12

I think blacks build is way more adaptive, depending on situation he goes age4. While the direct jap fi is far more risky and not always best in all situations.

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 11 Jul 2015, 00:42

bart331 wrote:I think blacks build is way more adaptive, depending on situation he goes age4. While the direct jap fi is far more risky and not always best in all situations.

How does his variant work?

Japan FI is risky, but at slightly lower levels that is compensated for because the strat is super easy and doesnt require micro or strategic understanding of the game or macro.

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 11 Jul 2015, 05:15

jerom wrote:
bart331 wrote:I think blacks build is way more adaptive, depending on situation he goes age4. While the direct jap fi is far more risky and not always best in all situations.
How does his variant work?

Japan FI is risky, but at slightly lower levels that is compensated for because the strat is super easy and doesnt require micro or strategic understanding of the game or macro.

He does a normal 600/4/4 build and goes age 3 and when he is in a good position he goes age 4 for the 2-3 shipments :p.
Actually going age 4 is already worth when youve sent your 3 free shipments.

ESOC

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