most success vs Japs?

lemmings121 · Post by **lemmings121** » 13 Jul 2015, 19:58

the amazing part is that everyone finds jap hard like hell to play against, noone seems to have a proper build against them (see this 4 pages with noone agreeing with anything), every tournament game with japas is mirror.... and still people rate japan as low tier civ

rly, wtf guys.

bart331 · Post by **bart331** » 13 Jul 2015, 20:12

Cuz everyone knows the helpless feeling u have from time to time playing against japan, where units keep coming out of nowhere and u seem unable to hurt their eco.

Mimsy for President · Post by **Mimsy for President** » 13 Jul 2015, 20:12

lemmings121 wrote:the amazing part is that everyone finds jap hard like hell to play against, noone seems to have a proper build against them (see this 4 pages with noone agreeing with anything), every tournament game with japas is mirror.... and still people rate japan as low tier civ

rly, wtf guys.

+1. That''s aoe3 community''s hypocrisy

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 13 Jul 2015, 23:53

Also I seen [sic] the replay and that kid wasn't trolling when he said he got massively outplayed. Damn, that was some REKTening...

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 13 Jul 2015, 23:53

lemmings121 wrote:the amazing part is that everyone finds jap hard like hell to play against, noone seems to have a proper build against them (see this 4 pages with noone agreeing with anything), every tournament game with japas is mirror.... and still people rate japan as low tier civ

rly, wtf guys.

Nobody rates Japanese as a low-tier civ except low-tier players.

lemmings121 · Post by **lemmings121** » 14 Jul 2015, 00:13

zoom wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:the amazing part is that everyone finds jap hard like hell to play against, noone seems to have a proper build against them (see this 4 pages with noone agreeing with anything), every tournament game with japas is mirror.... and still people rate japan as low tier civ

rly, wtf guys.
Nobody rates Japanese as a low-tier civ except low-tier players.

like h20...?

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 14 Jul 2015, 01:37

cquinn4 wrote:
ovi12 wrote:I dont play Japan, but i imagine its a pretty big deal. Not only do you loose 1 or 2 shrines, but you have to make 3 less shrines until the 600w comes, and if youre not 100% ready for it you might even loose a few more shrines
does losing shrines really negatively impact the japanese that bad?

Well a shrine costs them 75w, and if you kill it after like 40 seconds it only gathered about 25 wood, sothey lost 50 wood. Plus, they are loosing all the resoruces the shrine wouldve gathered if it was alive, until it is replaced. And depending on what Japan does, they might not replace that shrine for even a few minutes.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 14 Jul 2015, 01:38

H2O doesn't think Japanese is a low-tier civilization, as far as I know. Has he told you he does?

cquinn4 · Post by **cquinn4** » 14 Jul 2015, 02:56

ovi12 wrote:
cquinn4 wrote:does losing shrines really negatively impact the japanese that bad?
Well a shrine costs them 75w, and if you kill it after like 40 seconds it only gathered about 25 wood, sothey lost 50 wood. Plus, they are loosing all the resoruces the shrine wouldve gathered if it was alive, until it is replaced. And depending on what Japan does, they might not replace that shrine for even a few minutes.

Yeah I just feel like you give away some positioning/unit visibility and have to divert your army from each other but its better than nothing

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 14 Jul 2015, 05:05

cquinn4 wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Well a shrine costs them 75w, and if you kill it after like 40 seconds it only gathered about 25 wood, sothey lost 50 wood. Plus, they are loosing all the resoruces the shrine wouldve gathered if it was alive, until it is replaced. And depending on what Japan does, they might not replace that shrine for even a few minutes.
Yeah I just feel like you give away some positioning/unit visibility and have to divert your army from each other but its better than nothing

Point of the 10 pike semi ff is to have something to keep Japan busy while you are aging up, and imo the reason why you make pike and not musk or bows is because it keeps them busy while doing some eco damage as well.I like the musk too because it makes it easier on you because they help more in fights, but at a very high level just having the pike sieging somewhere else while you are fighting with age 3 units is probably better.

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 14 Jul 2015, 09:24

ovi12 wrote:
cquinn4 wrote:does losing shrines really negatively impact the japanese that bad?
Well a shrine costs them 75w, and if you kill it after like 40 seconds it only gathered about 25 wood, sothey lost 50 wood. Plus, they are loosing all the resoruces the shrine wouldve gathered if it was alive, until it is replaced. And depending on what Japan does, they might not replace that shrine for even a few minutes.

But its about killing 1 shrine while there are 14+ shrines up and not every shrine gets killed within 40 seconds of construction. Also killing shrines takes pressure off their villagers, which still is their main resource income.

macacoalbino · Post by **macacoalbino** » 14 Jul 2015, 11:47

How good is a straight FF agains japs? would it work with France for example?
It seems viable to me, just because there's not a lot of time for jap to deny your ageup nor to follow you up (I think), then you don't have to worry about FA and can ship your cannons kind of safely.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 14 Jul 2015, 13:09

Your timing will hit earlier, which might help your chances depending on your respective builds. I'd say it's viable for sure.

macacoalbino · Post by **macacoalbino** » 14 Jul 2015, 14:46

Yeah, I never tried it really. I just think it's kind of all in as you don't have the same eco as in a semi, but japs eco will be better than yours later anyways (with most civs)
Is there a way for japs to counter this? Jap semi is quite slow to counter, I guess

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 14 Jul 2015, 18:02

venox wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Well a shrine costs them 75w, and if you kill it after like 40 seconds it only gathered about 25 wood, sothey lost 50 wood. Plus, they are loosing all the resoruces the shrine wouldve gathered if it was alive, until it is replaced. And depending on what Japan does, they might not replace that shrine for even a few minutes.
But its about killing 1 shrine while there are 14+ shrines up and not every shrine gets killed within 40 seconds of construction. Also killing shrines takes pressure off their villagers, which still is their main resource income.

Well were talking about semi ff, if you try to semi ff with 10 bows and pressure the villagers I dont think that would be as good as 10 pikes pressuring shrines

niedhalf · Post by **niedhalf** » 14 Jul 2015, 18:40

I also think a straight FF is hard for jap...atleast i always struggle with that (im not that good tho

) those cannons at 07:30-08:00 are kind of a big deal and jap mass isnt that big at that time...

macacoalbino · Post by **macacoalbino** » 14 Jul 2015, 22:04

Yeah, can someone colonel or something tell us if this is viable?

cquinn4 · Post by **cquinn4** » 14 Jul 2015, 23:41

macacoalbino wrote:Yeah, can someone colonel or something tell us if this is viable?

if anything its only viable low level, hinted by the fact that Piroshki loses nearly every recording he does this in. You have no eco behind the 2 falcs and they can still get downed by enough infantry

Mimsy for President · Post by **Mimsy for President** » 15 Jul 2015, 00:35

method wrote:
shaolinstar wrote:Play Japan. Its so effective that dyddyd91 refuses to mirror me...
Lol you think dyddyd9 is scared to mirror you?? lawl

scared idk but he is reluctant indeed. I have recs in which I own his a$$ if you want. Dont despise me like that little yob ')

iNcog · Post by **iNcog** » 15 Jul 2015, 06:22

tbh as japan atm I have trouble vs a good dual rax

it's so fucking hard to get games these days and even harder to practice vs specific shit

walls / yumi are best, correct?

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 15 Jul 2015, 09:13

ashi nag if the map is too open' with enough ashi you can slam them in xbows face and win since pikes do no damage and still he needs pikes in case you go nag.

Hazza54321 · Post by **Hazza54321** » 15 Jul 2015, 10:26

China ff or fi might be a good option

_venox_ · Post by **_venox_** » 15 Jul 2015, 10:41

I also feel like the portuguese in industrial with enough walls against the raids and against mortars will win against japan aswell, composition wise culv HC 20" goons can't be countered that well by ashi yumi flaming arrows, since culv > arrows and HC > ashi (with enough to block) and goons can kite all day long. Still it takes a ton to win against the economy of japan.

BTW I really like the avatar sig potter.

blackstarop · Post by **blackstarop** » 15 Jul 2015, 10:50

Probably the only way to beat japan is otto jan abus huss,iro all in and mirror.The rest is not viable at all walls will just destroy the dreams.I dont see how an xbow pike can work against yumi+walls and a few ashi chasing down the pike raids.I also dont see how an ff or semi can work,japan can just follow u up like 30sec later or they can do timing push.

ESOC

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