How to vs. Japanese and China as Portugal

hnk97 · Post by **hnk97** » 10 Jul 2015, 03:18

After playing a few dozen games with Portugal and realizing that I almost always lost against these two empires, I'm wondering what exactly I can do to wins since none of the strategies I employed worked. No matter what I do or build, I always lose against the mid-late colonial or early fortress push from either of these. One game against China I even built 30 or so crossbows in colonial as well as some hussars as to counter the chokuno army i knew was coming, but I still lost. Similar things happened when matched against Japan who have upgraded ashigaru whom I cannot seem to counter as ports. If I save to FF to get cassadores, I simply cant build enough in time to stop the mass. Taking into consideration that they somehow have a strong eco all this time, that leaves me behind in both eco and army. I'm very frustrated playing against either of these two civs. I am looking to hear some viable strategies to survive and eventually win because as of now everything I tried failed.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 10 Jul 2015, 04:45

Portugal looses vs both of these civs

The best thing vs Japan I think is pike semi ff. Send 700f 700g 700w, make 10 pikemen, and age up with fast aging politician. With the pikemen kill shrines around the map but run from the ashi. You should be in age 3 around 8 minutes. When you are in age 3 and have cassadores, it is easy to kill ashi even if there are many more ashi than cassadores. When he comes close to your cassodores with ashi, shoot and move back, shoot and move back, until you reach your town center. If he comes closer, use minutemen and kill many ashi.

Vs China I think do a fast fortress, with 700g 1000w 1000f 1000g mamelukes with fast age up politician to age 3. You should be in age 3 at around 6:40

Always make a TP in transition to age 2.

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 10 Jul 2015, 05:12

ovi12 wrote:Portugal looses vs both of these civs

The best thing vs Japan I think is pike semi ff. Send 700f 700g 700w, make 10 pikemen, and age up with fast aging politician. With the pikemen kill shrines around the map but run from the ashi. You should be in age 3 around 8 minutes. When you are in age 3 and have cassadores, it is easy to kill ashi even if there are many more ashi than cassadores. When he comes close to your cassodores with ashi, shoot and move back, shoot and move back, until you reach your town center. If he comes closer, use minutemen and kill many ashi.

Vs China I think do a fast fortress, with 700g 1000w 1000f 1000g mamelukes with fast age up politician to age 3. You should be in age 3 at around 6:40

Always make a TP in transition to age 2.

Pike semi=>'700f 1st? What?
If you want to pike semi go 700w/700g/600w lol
Vs japan I would water boom if water or be agressive like bow rush or double musket or even aizamk''s 10/10.
Vs China I don''t really know but I would play it in age 2, musk/huss.

r4go · Post by **r4go** » 10 Jul 2015, 11:55

Umhhh..china jap>> porto hard...diarouga told you the right and only possibility you have

_DB_ · Post by **_DB_** » 10 Jul 2015, 12:25

Breezebrothers does a right way against Japan.
http://eso-community.net/attachment/download/625

Against China, 5 hussar semi FF with cassies + goons + hussars + 2 organ guns microed pretty well can beat China FF. Ports vs China isn't too unfair. Ports would do okay against China.
I would hardly assume a China player to rush Port or a Port player to rush China. A smart player won't do that. If some players do, Aizamk's 10/10 port rush works.

iNcog · Post by **iNcog** » 10 Jul 2015, 15:19

No way in hell can ports beat china in fortress..

Or do I have it all wrong?!

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 10 Jul 2015, 15:51

Hire Egyptian Mamelukes good shipment,

WickedCossack · Post by **WickedCossack** » 10 Jul 2015, 15:57

Yea China crushes Ports unfortunately

yurashic · Post by **yurashic** » 10 Jul 2015, 20:06

Do Aizamk's 10/10 rush against both of these civs. Not sure about Japan, but against China you have a good shot, especially if you catch him off guard like in this game.

youtube.com/watch?v=vINrnSulyNk Game 6.

Marco1698 · Post by **Marco1698** » 11 Jul 2015, 00:16

Hard mu.. On a water map easier I think

Mr_Bramboy · Post by **Mr_Bramboy** » 11 Jul 2015, 16:00

marco1698 wrote:Hard mu.. On a water map easier I think

Very good observation coming from someone with 0 port games.

Marco1698 · Post by **Marco1698** » 11 Jul 2015, 16:15

bramboy wrote:
marco1698 wrote:Hard mu.. On a water map easier I think
Very good observation coming from someone with 0 port games.

ahahah yeah but I am Japan player and I always beat that Porto shit

KINGofOsmane · Post by **KINGofOsmane** » 11 Jul 2015, 16:18

WATERBROTHERS WE WAIT FOR YOUR ADVICES

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 11 Jul 2015, 16:19

kingofosmane wrote:WATERBROTHERS WE WAIT FOR YOUR ADVICES

+1

_DB_ · Post by **_DB_** » 21 Sep 2015, 06:58

Can we have more response on this thread?

Seems impossible to do vs good Japan on land maps...

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Sep 2015, 08:23

Vs jap you can try to FI or go semi ff/aiz build but that's hopeless.
Vs china semi 5huss or some weird strats to surprise your opponent.

On water maps, just water boom

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 21 Sep 2015, 13:20

Vs china ship ATP in age 1 and build TP's. Don't upgrade them tho i guess.

musketjr · Post by **musketjr** » 21 Sep 2015, 14:47

Vs Japan try either FF>'FR (FF into Fast Resign) or CP>'FR (Colonial play into Fast Resign). The semi or Delayed Fast Resign (DFR), where you ageup into a slow resign achieves the same thing but obviously, the FR builds save you time.
Vs china I would suggest going for either the AFR (Accelerated Fast Resign) wherein you resign immediately or going for a FF>'FR, as before resigning there is a small, arguably negligible but still existent chance you could win the game.

lusas · Post by **lusas** » 21 Sep 2015, 15:41

Its really a waste of time has port , if china and jap do it well is nothing u can do , just GG

rsy · Post by **rsy** » 21 Sep 2015, 15:49

musketjr wrote:Vs Japan try either FF>FR (FF into Fast Resign) or CP>FR (Colonial play into Fast Resign). The semi or Delayed Fast Resign (DFR), where you ageup into a slow resign achieves the same thing but obviously, the FR builds save you time.
Vs china I would suggest going for either the AFR (Accelerated Fast Resign) wherein you resign immediately or going for a FF>FR, as before resigning there is a small, arguably negligible but still existent chance you could win the game.

well said. I observe u have very good game sense and a knack for catching details. Again well said!

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 21 Sep 2015, 16:50

vs jap pike semi and then 2rax 1 stable
vs china huss semi and then 2rax 1 stable
gl

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Sep 2015, 17:25

garja wrote:vs jap pike semi and then 2rax 1 stable
vs china huss semi and then 2rax 1 stable
gl

1rax 1stable imo

forgrin · Post by **forgrin** » 21 Sep 2015, 18:04

Vs China: you just get outmassed hard in fort, even though your comp is superior.
Vs Japanese: They just do their Japan things, you can't really break them early, best chance is to threaten shrines with pikes. Your one advantage is their FA aren't as effective as you're not gonna ship falcs, but you're still kinda screwed because of their inf mass.

Against both, probably just go yolo super aggressive build like others have said.

yurashic · Post by **yurashic** » 21 Sep 2015, 19:54

forgrin wrote:Vs China: you just get outmassed hard in fort, even though your comp is superior.
Vs Japanese: They just do their Japan things, you can''t really break them early, best chance is to threaten shrines with pikes. Your one advantage is their FA aren''t as effective as you''re not gonna ship falcs, but you''re still kinda screwed because of their inf mass.

Against both, probably just go yolo super aggressive build like others have said.

Loooooool Port comp superior to China comp... Have fun making cost inefficient cassadores and terrible organ guns against uncounterable meteor hammers and 210 hp musketeers... Your goons are really good but that is not enough...

Do 10/10 rush and you have a good chance of beating Chinese. Watch the game I linked earlier in this thread.

forgrin · Post by **forgrin** » 21 Sep 2015, 20:59

yurashic wrote:
forgrin wrote:Vs China: you just get outmassed hard in fort, even though your comp is superior.
Vs Japanese: They just do their Japan things, you cant really break them early, best chance is to threaten shrines with pikes. Your one advantage is their FA arent as effective as youre not gonna ship falcs, but youre still kinda screwed because of their inf mass.

Against both, probably just go yolo super aggressive build like others have said.

Loooooool Port comp superior to China comp... Have fun making cost inefficient cassadores and terrible organ guns against uncounterable meteor hammers and 210 hp musketeers... Your goons are really good but that is not enough...

Do 10/10 rush and you have a good chance of beating Chinese. Watch the game I linked earlier in this thread.

Hypothetically, skirm-goon (even cass-goon) is a better comp, but like you said Chinas OP shipments break through it easily which is what I was referring to when I said "outmassed." I think it is winnable if the port player somehow gets mams out before 11 changdao or Manchu. Just comes down to those shipments- China is turning into Spain from Vanilla.

ESOC

Top Live Streams

Legacy AoE3