How to vs. Japanese and China as Portugal

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 21 Sep 2015, 21:32

skirm goons is not a good combo vs a civ that have decent skirm and hand inf

yurashic · Post by **yurashic** » 21 Sep 2015, 21:36

forgrin wrote:
yurashic wrote:Loooooool Port comp superior to China comp... Have fun making cost inefficient cassadores and terrible organ guns against uncounterable meteor hammers and 210 hp musketeers... Your goons are really good but that is not enough...

Do 10/10 rush and you have a good chance of beating Chinese. Watch the game I linked earlier in this thread.

Hypothetically, skirm-goon (even cass-goon) is a better comp, but like you said Chinas OP shipments break through it easily which is what I was referring to when I said "outmassed." I think it is winnable if the port player somehow gets mams out before 11 changdao or Manchu. Just comes down to those shipments- China is turning into Spain from Vanilla.

Well China is not really a civ that benefits from shipments that much, they do not even get trading posts. Shipments obviously help but for the most part their strengths are unit composition, cost-efficient units, a lot of stuff for free (summer palace, consulate, Confucian academy, monk, disciples) and low dependance on natural resurces.

forgrin · Post by **forgrin** » 21 Sep 2015, 21:47

yurashic wrote:
forgrin wrote:Hypothetically, skirm-goon (even cass-goon) is a better comp, but like you said Chinas OP shipments break through it easily which is what I was referring to when I said "outmassed." I think it is winnable if the port player somehow gets mams out before 11 changdao or Manchu. Just comes down to those shipments- China is turning into Spain from Vanilla.
Well China is not really a civ that benefits from shipments that much, they do not even get trading posts. Shipments obviously help but for the most part their strengths are unit composition, cost-efficient units, a lot of stuff for free (summer palace, consulate, Confucian academy, monk, disciples) and low dependance on natural resurces.

True, but you gotta remember without the shipments theyd have awkward comps with too many changs/not enough arq, etc. They do have alot of free stuff though... Its a bit ridiculous.

360noob · Post by **360noob** » 22 Sep 2015, 03:07

Port against jap is an impossible matchup no way for ports to win on land

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 22 Sep 2015, 16:10

forgrin wrote:
yurashic wrote:Well China is not really a civ that benefits from shipments that much, they do not even get trading posts. Shipments obviously help but for the most part their strengths are unit composition, cost-efficient units, a lot of stuff for free (summer palace, consulate, Confucian academy, monk, disciples) and low dependance on natural resurces.
True, but you gotta remember without the shipments theyd have awkward comps with too many changs/not enough arq, etc. They do have alot of free stuff though... Its a bit ridiculous.

Chinese free stuff: Banner armies at a rate 4.5VS.

Kaiserklein · Post by **Kaiserklein** » 22 Sep 2015, 16:53

Why do people keep saying organs suck... It's just the 2 organs shipment that sucks. Otherwise, organs deal more damage to infantry than falcs.

Vs china I guess you can either musk rush (with early tp do 300w/700g/700f/6 musks, 300w + 400w age up => 2 rax + 3 houses and you will have 36 musks in 7 min) or fast mams into goon/organ
Vs jap if he is walling up on a land map you lose like always, but you can try to FI I guess. If he doesn't wall up just rush (musks or bow/pike)

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 22 Sep 2015, 17:24

Organ Guns are great vs Chinese' just not before you have enough anti-cav to surround them.

lusas · Post by **lusas** » 22 Sep 2015, 18:14

Its a waste of time . maybe in FP Port may have a chance

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 23 Sep 2015, 09:29

kaiserklein wrote:Why do people keep saying organs suck... It''s just the 2 organs shipment that sucks. Otherwise, organs deal more damage to infantry than falcs.

Vs china I guess you can either musk rush (with early tp do 300w/700g/700f/6 musks, 300w + 400w age up => 2 rax + 3 houses and you will have 36 musks in 7 min) or fast mams into goon/organ
Vs jap if he is walling up on a land map you lose like always, but you can try to FI I guess. If he doesn''t wall up just rush (musks or bow/pike)

organs just suck because they lose to falcs badly.

Kaiserklein · Post by **Kaiserklein** » 23 Sep 2015, 10:47

jerom wrote:
kaiserklein wrote:Why do people keep saying organs suck... Its just the 2 organs shipment that sucks. Otherwise, organs deal more damage to infantry than falcs.

Vs china I guess you can either musk rush (with early tp do 300w/700g/700f/6 musks, 300w + 400w age up =>' 2 rax + 3 houses and you will have 36 musks in 7 min) or fast mams into goon/organ
Vs jap if he is walling up on a land map you lose like always, but you can try to FI I guess. If he doesnt wall up just rush (musks or bow/pike)
organs just suck because they lose to falcs badly.

Not even, just the 2 organs losing to 2 falcs card. And even if falcs beat organs who cares, most people wont train falcs anyway, just ship them. So if you mass some organs you will kill their 2 falcs easily. Imo the biggest flaw of organs in an artillery war isnt that they lose to falcs (if they do) but that they get one-shot by culvs

illmatic · Post by **illmatic** » 23 Sep 2015, 12:39

jerom wrote:
kaiserklein wrote:Why do people keep saying organs suck... Its just the 2 organs shipment that sucks. Otherwise, organs deal more damage to infantry than falcs.

Vs china I guess you can either musk rush (with early tp do 300w/700g/700f/6 musks, 300w + 400w age up => 2 rax + 3 houses and you will have 36 musks in 7 min) or fast mams into goon/organ
Vs jap if he is walling up on a land map you lose like always, but you can try to FI I guess. If he doesnt wall up just rush (musks or bow/pike)
organs just suck because they lose to falcs badly.

how many falc shots to kill an organ or a culv? also what is their range vs culv or rgan

Kaiserklein · Post by **Kaiserklein** » 23 Sep 2015, 19:16

illmatic wrote:
jerom wrote:organs just suck because they lose to falcs badly.
how many falc shots to kill an organ or a culv? also what is their range vs culv or rgan

a falc needs 2 shots to kill an organ gun, and 3 to kill a culv. Falcs and organs have 26 range, while culvs have 34.

fei123456 · Post by **fei123456** » 23 Sep 2015, 20:33

organ gun is gatling. they kill infantries much faster than falconets yeah they lost to falconet, but 2 organ gun can kill at least 1 falconet.

fei123456 · Post by **fei123456** » 23 Sep 2015, 20:40

if it's me... i would do a tp ff vs china. 300w first for 1-2 tp. age up with 500f, send 700g, age up fast, and 1000w. keep about 15 cacadore to hit and run, mass dragoon and send 1000g mameluke. also you may need some veteran hussar to tank his cav.
and vs japan, 400w age up and ff. keep training musk from 1 rax. and send cacadore then mameluke and attack. then gg.
also you can try aizamk's 10/10 rush. it must be interesting. but remember you are not aizamk.

ESOC

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