discussion of wall macro

[EAGLEMUT]

@princeofkabul it's an in-game macro that works as you describe the gaming mouse macro plus you don't need to select a pillar to execute it.

[lordraphael]

ah yea, i just read tabbens point. I agree, if kynesie used it in this series, and it's not allowed in the rules, then imo kynesie should be banned. it's just simple. especially if he used it in previous games as well. play by the rules or don't play. period.

I don't think that's fair. Considering just about everyone knows about this macro, it has been used in numerous tournament games before and there was never an official statement against its usage (afaik), it would feel quite random to DQ a player for it now.

admins should make a clear ruling on the use of this macro, once and for all. it's pretty bs it's not been cleared up before but whatever.

Well, I can say it will be cleared up once the next version of EP releases, if you know what I mean.

well exactly its been known and literally everyone has said they consider it a cheat, yet actions never have been taken. Its good that you will prevent its use in the next ep ( at least thats what im guessing you are hinting )but before that i seriously cant understand that it hasnt been banned for tourney use. Rotator mod is forbidden despite being in the game but a macro thats created exclusively for the purpose of saving clicks is allowed ???

[princeofkabul]

Understood. Thanks for clarification.

[lordraphael]

Glad to hear tabben will continue his series. I didn't really save my words to you or miggo last night because I was very hyped for the series, for that I apologize.
For wall mod, I've heard it's automatic program deleting pillar foundations or something so you don't need to click them. Also I've heard it's just a macro setup for choose all and delete chosen objects.
I don't know which is the truth, but if it's the choose all and delete objects I literally have used it for some years myself. Binding choose all in one macro of my gaming mouse and delete in other. With this you can pretty much effortlessly construct pillarless walls if you have good mouse accuracy. I don't know if kynesie has the same setup for it as I, but if he has it and is just so fast deleting the pillars ( without automatic delete script) I don't see a reason why he can't do it. Utilizing gaming mouse advantages are, and should not be forbidden.

you know very well that this is not the case. Its very easy to spot the mod, gibthedurrty used it aswell for the reccord and kingofosmane has been using it for years aswell, tho not really relevant for this tourney i guess

[Peshmerga12]

No disrespect to kynesie but you can't argue that "it is just saving a milisec". Umeu is explaining it perfectly.
And tbh it is not fun to play against mass wall. But that is my opnion

[princeofkabul]

Glad to hear tabben will continue his series. I didn't really save my words to you or miggo last night because I was very hyped for the series, for that I apologize.
For wall mod, I've heard it's automatic program deleting pillar foundations or something so you don't need to click them. Also I've heard it's just a macro setup for choose all and delete chosen objects.
I don't know which is the truth, but if it's the choose all and delete objects I literally have used it for some years myself. Binding choose all in one macro of my gaming mouse and delete in other. With this you can pretty much effortlessly construct pillarless walls if you have good mouse accuracy. I don't know if kynesie has the same setup for it as I, but if he has it and is just so fast deleting the pillars ( without automatic delete script) I don't see a reason why he can't do it. Utilizing gaming mouse advantages are, and should not be forbidden.

you know very well that this is not the case. Its very easy to spot the mod, gibthedurrty used it aswell for the reccord and kingofosmane has been using it for years aswell, tho not really relevant for this tourney i guess

I didn't know, hence I asked. I've known the macro setup for very long time yes. But for auto delete scripts I didn't.
I agree game modifications should be disallowed from tournament games.

[Kaiserklein]

The point is does the wall macro make a difference? Yes. Was it the 1st or 2nd or 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th or 7th or 8th or 9th reason why tabben lost? No.

I don't think anyone actually claims tabben lost because of the wall macro.

[EAGLEMUT]

well exactly its been known and literally everyone has said they consider it a cheat, yet actions never have been taken. Its good that you will prevent its use in the next ep ( at least thats what im guessing you are hinting )but before that i seriously cant understand that it hasnt been banned for tourney use. Rotator mod is forbidden despite being in the game but a macro thats created exclusively for the purpose of saving clicks is allowed ???

I'm not sure why it wasn't explicitly banned in tournaments earlier, perhaps it's hard to prove from recs or something - also afaik winners are asked to post their PoV recs only from this latest event onwards. We'll probably see the media team make a statement on this matter.

[Kynesie]

ah yea, i just read tabbens point. I agree, if kynesie used it in this series, and it's not allowed in the rules, then imo kynesie should be banned. it's just simple. especially if he used it in previous games as well. play by the rules or don't play. period.

I don't think that's fair. Considering just about everyone knows about this macro, it has been used in numerous tournament games before and there was never an official statement against its usage (afaik), it would feel quite random to DQ a player for it now.

admins should make a clear ruling on the use of this macro, once and for all. it's pretty bs it's not been cleared up before but whatever.

Well, I can say it will be cleared up once the next version of EP releases, if you know what I mean.

If you lock hotkey edit, plz correct the existing before, there are many forgotten, and bugs ..

[Goodspeed]

.

[Goodspeed]

.

[ChewSick]

I think it's time to address the actual problem. If walls+sea were not as superior (going FI with almost no sacrifices), nobody would complain about that mod kynesie and others are using.

It's the balance team's job now to find a solution that provides clear strengths and weaknesses for sea eco for future tournaments.

something that comes to my mind is for example giving towers anti-ship-damage against fishing boats (just like in nilla).

[flontier]

Maybe start by nerfing schooner cards which is more broken than on re .....kynesie style has never been as good as on this ep version thanks to schooner, idk if people realize it, instead of blaming walls...

[deleted_user0]

It's a cheat with remarkable benefits which should be banned.

[princeofkabul]

should start by running waterdecks in water maps aswell in a tournament games. In aoe 2 and even aoeo if it's a watermap people has always been competing on water. I don't know why in aoe 3 this is not done.

[pecelot]

let's get the rotator mod unban going

[momuuu]

You can bind select all and delete to the same key so it literally saves 1 click per line of wall you make as compared to what you can do just in the hot key settings. It’s not game changing in anyway. It certainly shouldn’t be allowed in tournaments, but I’m tired of everyone acting like it’s some huge deal. But “muuuhhhhh apm kynesie makes so many walls it’s such a big deal reeeeeeeee”. No it’s not. If he made 200 lines of wall that’s 200 clicks saved which is irrelevant over a 30 minute game.

Please people, dont bind select all and delete to the same hotkey. Thats a great way to actually delect all your skirmishers.

And for those that say they dont use select all of the same type: that hotkey is extremely useful and shouldnt be wasted for some quick delete macro.

[ChewSick]

should start by running waterdecks in water maps aswell in a tournament games. In aoe 2 and even aoeo if it's a watermap people has always been competing on water. I don't know why in aoe 3 this is not done.

going water should be a nice addition but not the only thing that matters

[momuuu]

Btw Tabben did sort of lose due to not having the wall pillar mod. He didnt delete the pillars of a wall, which caused it to be build more slowly which allowed petards to get in his base and bomb the porcelain tower. Which caused tabben to resign!

[Hazza54321]

You say that as a joke but its also kinda true x)

[yemshi]

1 petard kills a layer. as easy.

[n0el]

In theory, you'd ban all forms of modification to the game that aren't accessible in the client. Since the good people at ES gave us a turd to polish, this isn't possible so we have to do the best we can to eliminate them ourselves through rules and people speaking up about them.

[momuuu]

1 petard kills a layer. as easy.

which notifies tabben by an alert sound and buys him time. Tabben sends minutemen which barely snipe off two petards, saving his wonder in the nick of time. It doesn't require you to look very far to see the advantages a wall macro or pillar delete script can give.

That being said, Tabben was going to lose the game anyways. Someone really needs to tell him hand mortars are a unit china can make.

[Oliveza]

I dont think the Problem is water, if your Opponent goes water you can Always contest it ,evenmore so on ep since culvs have been buffed and ship range Card was nerved. I think it would be better if you increased wall cost, or put the Stone wall upgrade to age 4 or sth so the Benefit of Building 5 or more layers of wall wouldnt be there. Also if you had only 1000hp walls until age 4 your Opponent has enough time to get cannons etc to break your walls and you cant sit behind Stone walls with skrim/lb/Yumi and lame your way to Victory.

[flontier]

Or do a max walls limit, like there is for tower or tc for exemple, idk if its possible to implement but could be cool, then you have to think and place each segments of walls smartly to not reach the limit .