discussion of wall macro

[gibson]

Actually not sure why I didn’t think of this before, but you could bind delete and select all wall pillars to a key that you don’t use for anything, like the caps lock key for example, and just press that key with like your pinky finger whenever you’re making a line of wall and it takes no time and doesn’t even cost you anything in terms of apm. So really relative to what you can do in the hot key menu the macro doesn’t save hardly anything. I guess you do have to click okay if it deleting more than 1 pillar, not sure if there’s a way around that. Regardless the macro is barely relevant even in games where there is tons of walking and irrelevant in games where there’s not much.

[gibson]

Nice the classic "you arent pr 40 so youre wrong" argument. I feel like im beating a dead horse. Show me a spot in a game that he's played where the fraction of a second that he saves actually matters(hint, it probably happens like once every 100 games if not more). The point is that if aoe was a competitive game like sc2 it would be a huge deal, but no body plays anywhere near clean enough for the half a second he saves per line of wall to actually matter. The "mechanics of aoe at a top level" arent any different than the mechanics of the aoe that I play, besides the fact I,intentionally, dont micro units. I've beaten 75% of top players with those mechanics, and would have beaten you last time I played you but for the fact that I closed my eyes during what ended up being the last fight, so its not so unreasonable to assume that if I actually tryharded the game for a bit I could reach the elusive "pr 35+" where I wouldnt just be able to be automatically dismissed without any argument like youre doing. So if you can provide some actually reasoning besides "youre bad so youre wrong" please do so.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ProudCharmingMa ... eelsBadMan

nad here comes the classic gibson argument " i could be a top player if i only tried. Just as much as me or other top players are bathing in the "im a top player" attidude you are bathing in the " i could if i only tried" attidude which makes you not a single bit better than anyone of us and is as irrelevant as you claim my argument to be. And for the reccord me playing china is probably the biggest troll of all, so you coming close to beating me there would be literally as telling as you coming close to beating me in a game where i would go for a black watch brit ff or other troll strats.

Yea the only difference is I’ve provided actually arguments while you’ve done nothing but say you don’t understand cause you’re bad, which apparently is a better argument I guess

[momuuu]

There is no "select all wall pillars" button right?

[gibson]

I haven’t actually checked, but there seemed to be select all for most things so I assumed there would for that. I don’t really care about this in the first place so let’s just assume there isn’t actually, easier for me than having to try to defend myself against “the wall macro boogieman” even though anyone with the slightest bit of common sense can see it’s barely relevant.

[momuuu]

I haven’t actually checked, but there seemed to be select all for most things so I assumed there would for that

Im pretty sure there is not. Theres select all infantry and all cavalry iirc, but dont know if theres more.

[Oliveza]

there is a button <select all of a type> . you click for example on a unit and use the Hotkey, then you get all Units of that type. same with Buildings.

[momuuu]

there is a button <select all of a type> . you click for example on a unit and use the Hotkey, then you get all Units of that type. same with Buildings.

Yes, but it would never be worth it to actually bind that to the same hotkey as delete in order to just be faster with deleting wall pillars; its an extremely useful hotkey for normal usage, much more useful than deleting wall pillars more quickly would be.

Now that Im saying this.. cant you add alternative hotkeys in aoe3?

[Garja]

There isn't a select pillar key, but even with that walling would be significantly less convenient than just hitting a button while you're looking at something else on the map.

If you can't appreciate the difference between manually selecting stuff and deleting it vs automated macro I can't help. There isn't much to argue about it.

[Cometk]

@princeofkabul viewtopic.php?t=3062

This is the hotkey kynesie was using. It transforms a four keystroke into a two or three keystroke.

@Garja yeah that’s one of its biggest advantages of the macro is the ability to lay down walls, micro the fight and then without having to move the screen/mouse you can slam the hotkey and delete all pillars on the map. In addition the macro removes any potential for mistake by way of selecting all of your villagers or all of your military and pressing the delete key too soon. Rare but sometimes happens, usually in lag.

[deleted_user0]

Nice the classic "you arent pr 40 so youre wrong" argument. I feel like im beating a dead horse. Show me a spot in a game that he's played where the fraction of a second that he saves actually matters(hint, it probably happens like once every 100 games if not more). The point is that if aoe was a competitive game like sc2 it would be a huge deal, but no body plays anywhere near clean enough for the half a second he saves per line of wall to actually matter. The "mechanics of aoe at a top level" arent any different than the mechanics of the aoe that I play, besides the fact I,intentionally, dont micro units. I've beaten 75% of top players with those mechanics, and would have beaten you last time I played you but for the fact that I closed my eyes during what ended up being the last fight, so its not so unreasonable to assume that if I actually tryharded the game for a bit I could reach the elusive "pr 35+" where I wouldnt just be able to be automatically dismissed without any argument like youre doing. So if you can provide some actually reasoning besides "youre bad so youre wrong" please do so.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ProudCharmingMa ... eelsBadMan

nad here comes the classic gibson argument " i could be a top player if i only tried. Just as much as me or other top players are bathing in the "im a top player" attidude you are bathing in the " i could if i only tried" attidude which makes you not a single bit better than anyone of us and is as irrelevant as you claim my argument to be. And for the reccord me playing china is probably the biggest troll of all, so you coming close to beating me there would be literally as telling as you coming close to beating me in a game where i would go for a black watch brit ff or other troll strats.

Yea the only difference is I’ve provided actually arguments while you’ve done nothing but say you don’t understand cause you’re bad, which apparently is a better argument I guess

actually he didnt say that at all. He said you're very often right about many things, but you aren't now, and it's possibly because you don't appreciate things in the way "top players" do. You know... sometimes skill does make a difference when you're talking about a skill based game... Not always, perhaps not even often, but definitely sometimes. Whether that's the case now is another matter.

[gibson]

That’s fair umeu but than it would still be on him to show why this is different,which he hasn’t

[nanyjbefure3]

In theory, you'd ban all forms of modification to the game that aren't accessible in the client. Since the good people at ES gave us a turd to polish, this isn't possible so we have to do the best we can to eliminate them ourselves through rules and people speaking up about them.

actually it is possible

phpBB [video]

[yemshi]

Now that Im saying this.. cant you add alternative hotkeys in aoe3?

Dislikes a wall macro -> wants new hotkeys -> ???

[Hidddy_]

If it didn't make a difference, he wouldn't use it

This

[momuuu]

Now that Im saying this.. cant you add alternative hotkeys in aoe3?

Dislikes a wall macro -> wants new hotkeys -> ???

I believe aoe3 has functionality that allows you to map the same hotkey twice or something. Thats what I was referring to at least...

[supahons]

If you don't allow building rotator in the tournament, why would you allow macros? They both give a player a marginal? advantage. If you allow macros, then the question is how to optimize your hotkeys + macros and save more time. I use the select all units hotkey quite often, this option isn't available on nilla, but it changes the gameplay a lot for me (you don't have to search units, if they somewhere on the map).
Macros probably would be a step further, if you can combine the hotkeys (although this wall macro alone won't change anything in supremacy). I don't use any in aoe atm, but i have used them in other games and i think the deleting pillars macro is quite useful for NR games. (select the wall + 3 buttons --> select the wall + 2 buttons for pillarless walls)

[fightinfrenchman]

If you don't allow building rotator in the tournament, why would you allow macros? They both give a player a marginal? advantage. If you allow macros, then the question is how to optimize your hotkeys + macros and save more time. I use the select all units hotkey quite often, this option isn't available on nilla, but it changes the gameplay a lot for me (you don't have to search units, if they somewhere on the map).
Macros probably would be a step further, if you can combine the hotkeys (although this wall macro alone won't change anything in supremacy). I don't use any in aoe atm, but i have used them in other games and i think the deleting pillars macro is quite useful for NR games. (select the wall + 3 buttons --> select the wall + 2 buttons for pillarless walls)

IMO, whatever is allowed to be customized in game should be allowed in tournaments. If it requires anything outside the base game + the patch it should not be allowed.

[dicktator_]

If it didn't make a difference, he wouldn't use it

This

I think they view it as a quality of life improvement. At least, that's the excuse I used back when I used the ekanta ui.

[deleted_user]

Sliding spectrum, greys, greys, greys.

[supahons]

[spoiler]

If you don't allow building rotator in the tournament, why would you allow macros? They both give a player a marginal? advantage. If you allow macros, then the question is how to optimize your hotkeys + macros and save more time. I use the select all units hotkey quite often, this option isn't available on nilla, but it changes the gameplay a lot for me (you don't have to search units, if they somewhere on the map).
Macros probably would be a step further, if you can combine the hotkeys (although this wall macro alone won't change anything in supremacy). I don't use any in aoe atm, but i have used them in other games and i think the deleting pillars macro is quite useful for NR games. (select the wall + 3 buttons --> select the wall + 2 buttons for pillarless walls)

[/spoiler]

IMO, whatever is allowed to be customized in game should be allowed in tournaments. If it requires anything outside the base game + the patch it should not be allowed.

yes, hotkeys should be allowed, macros on the other hand could change the game quite a lot -> it's probably outright cheating.

i spent an hour and that's the result: "change the unit formation to melee and attack move"-macro with one button. (*edit probably all hotkey combinations are possible, this saves a lot of time for the user of macros)

You press the "+" button and the selected units change the stance to melee and the sword symbol for the attack move appears immediately.

[spoiler=melee and attack move combined][/spoiler]

The file doesn't exist in the original gamedata and you have to add a modified file to your gamedata folder.
idk if i get an oos vs real players, but nothing happens online or offline vs bots.
If i can do this then others can do it too - you better ban this from tournaments or EP.

[yemshi]

I believe aoe3 has functionality that allows you to map the same hotkey twice or something. Thats what I was referring to at least...

I misunderstood that, sorry. You can definitely do that, yes.

[deleted_user]

Busy busy busy

[Goodspeed]

A macro is a simple way to automate execution. It's a mild form of getting outside help. A more extreme form would be having a bot execute your entire build for you. It should not be legal in competitive play considering how important mechanics are in this game.

[pecelot]

you can't change the rules mid-tournament, but just make sure that you allow the rotator mod before the next one

[momuuu]

A macro is a simple way to automate execution. It's a mild form of getting outside help. A more extreme form would be having a bot execute your entire build for you. It should not be legal in competitive play considering how important mechanics are in this game.

Can a macro even be detected though? What if the player is just really fast at it?