discussion of wall macro

[momuuu]

I believe aoe3 has functionality that allows you to map the same hotkey twice or something. Thats what I was referring to at least...

I misunderstood that, sorry. You can definitely do that, yes.

Yeah so I got a bit confused over aoe3 and sc2 hotkey functionality and couldn't recall. If you can map the same hotkey twice then what gibson said is actually possible: At an alternate hotkey for select all of the same type, then also bind the delete hotkey to that alternate hotkey. You've just legally created a 'delete' macro which happens if you press that button twice. You're saving a few milliseconds with a macro at this point, and it would be impossible to tell the difference between a macro with a coded small delay from this trick.

But what isn't clear to me yet is if the wall thing kynesie uses goes beyond a simple macro configuration, and instead is actually altering the game files. It was implied that it is, which makes me wonder if there's actually extra functionality like deleting pillars without ever requiring user input.

[deleted_user0]

I believe aoe3 has functionality that allows you to map the same hotkey twice or something. Thats what I was referring to at least...

I misunderstood that, sorry. You can definitely do that, yes.

Yeah so I got a bit confused over aoe3 and sc2 hotkey functionality and couldn't recall. If you can map the same hotkey twice then what gibson said is actually possible: At an alternate hotkey for select all of the same type, then also bind the delete hotkey to that alternate hotkey. You've just legally created a 'delete' macro which happens if you press that button twice. You're saving a few milliseconds with a macro at this point, and it would be impossible to tell the difference between a macro with a coded small delay from this trick.

But what isn't clear to me yet is if the wall thing kynesie uses goes beyond a simple macro configuration, and instead is actually altering the game files. It was implied that it is, which makes me wonder if there's actually extra functionality like deleting pillars without ever requiring user input.

you can map the same hotkey twice, but not for actions that happen in the same sphere.

to do what kynesie's macro does, you need a select pillar key, and map it onto the delete selected key. there select pillar key doesn't exist, so it has to be select all of same type. you can do this, but if you ever missclick, you might lose all your vills instead. and even then it's make wall + click pillar + press button 2x vs just make wall. the reason this is significant is also because of how kynesie walls, he barely ever walls whole parts of the wall and then deletes, he basically lays down one piece, and then the other. this way he can make very well designed walls, but doing it this way without macro would take much much longer. and thats where the true strength of the macro lies, it allows you to wall in a way that you normally wouldn't be able to.

[momuuu]

Show hidden quotes

I believe aoe3 has functionality that allows you to map the same hotkey twice or something. Thats what I was referring to at least...

I misunderstood that, sorry. You can definitely do that, yes.

Yeah so I got a bit confused over aoe3 and sc2 hotkey functionality and couldn't recall. If you can map the same hotkey twice then what gibson said is actually possible: At an alternate hotkey for select all of the same type, then also bind the delete hotkey to that alternate hotkey. You've just legally created a 'delete' macro which happens if you press that button twice. You're saving a few milliseconds with a macro at this point, and it would be impossible to tell the difference between a macro with a coded small delay from this trick.

But what isn't clear to me yet is if the wall thing kynesie uses goes beyond a simple macro configuration, and instead is actually altering the game files. It was implied that it is, which makes me wonder if there's actually extra functionality like deleting pillars without ever requiring user input.

you can map the same hotkey twice, but not for actions that happen in the same sphere.

to do what kynesie's macro does, you need a select pillar key, and map it onto the delete selected key. there select pillar key doesn't exist, so it has to be select all of same type. you can do this, but if you ever missclick, you might lose all your vills instead. and even then it's make wall + click pillar + press button 2x vs just make wall. the reason this is significant is also because of how kynesie walls, he barely ever walls whole parts of the wall and then deletes, he basically lays down one piece, and then the other. this way he can make very well designed walls, but doing it this way without macro would take much much longer. and thats where the true strength of the macro lies, it allows you to wall in a way that you normally wouldn't be able to.

So the macro automatically detects the presence of pillars? Because I still don't get the details of how it works. Btw, you would have to press the button twice, and of course theres the risk of losing stuff due to delete but most people have a delete button mapped anyways so apperantly some people think the risk is worth it.

[knusch]

its simple this lil addition:

"
// Pillar deletion hotkey

map ("m", "game", "uiFindAllOfType(\"WallConnector\") uiDeleteAllSelectedUnits")
"

its going around since forever, tho never has been rly addressed...
and ofc its a massive advantage taking his playstyle into account

[deleted_user0]

So he's not using a macro, he just edited the hotkey file?

[Garja]

well that's a macro, it's 2 commands. But I think the script doesn't even requires a key to be pressed.

[EAGLEMUT]

It does require a key, but doesn't require selecting a pillar.

[lemmings121]

well that's a macro, it's 2 commands. But I think the script doesn't even requires a key to be pressed.

yeah imo this needs some clarification, if he just places the wall and magically the pillars vanish without any input, that definitely shouldn't be allowed.

oooh but hes saving only 2 clicks

Yeah and making vills is also only 2 key presses. I'll make a script that every 30s auto queues one vill for me. maybe another to put one musk in queue as soon as a rax is built (...)

[momuuu]

Actually, he's doing more than just saving 2 clicks. The macro means he won't have to actually select the pillar. And doing so is not entirely trivial, it actually requires some fairly precise mouse movement which takes quite a bit of effort, especially in the heat of a game.

[Garja]

For reference, even just macroing the select TC and making vill in a single key is cheating.

[Warno]

Why is there even a discussion? It shouldn't be allowed.

If you can save time using a macro, regardless of it's effectiveness, it will give an advantage. If it didn't give an advantage (save clicks/time) then it wouldn't be used.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I had it at some point, and it does save a lot of time. I'd say you save about 2-3 sec each time you use it.

[Rikikipu]

#JeSuisKynesie

[supahons]

I used macros like this in wow more than a decade ago:
https://de.wowhead.com/making-a-macro-commands-modifiers-warcraft-guide

In this game it's even an option by the devs to add your own macros, but in aoe3 it isn't. [spoiler=wow in game macro][/spoiler]

Macros are just a hotkey version 2.0, but in aoe3 it takes some more steps to add them. "The file doesn't exist in the original gamedata (*when you only install the game) and you have to add a modified file to your gamedata folder." (you get the file by downloading it, or by extracting it with a program, then you add your own macro-code)
hotkey v1: produce a villager with t + v
hotkey v2: produce a villager with t

With each macro you save at least one button to click and then you have more time to focus your eco or your units.
That's why you need a rule, if they are allowed or forbidden, you definitely have an advantage with macros.

[deleted_user0]

[spoiler]

If you don't allow building rotator in the tournament, why would you allow macros? They both give a player a marginal? advantage. If you allow macros, then the question is how to optimize your hotkeys + macros and save more time. I use the select all units hotkey quite often, this option isn't available on nilla, but it changes the gameplay a lot for me (you don't have to search units, if they somewhere on the map).
Macros probably would be a step further, if you can combine the hotkeys (although this wall macro alone won't change anything in supremacy). I don't use any in aoe atm, but i have used them in other games and i think the deleting pillars macro is quite useful for NR games. (select the wall + 3 buttons --> select the wall + 2 buttons for pillarless walls)

[/spoiler]

IMO, whatever is allowed to be customized in game should be allowed in tournaments. If it requires anything outside the base game + the patch it should not be allowed.

yes, hotkeys should be allowed, macros on the other hand could change the game quite a lot -> it's probably outright cheating.

i spent an hour and that's the result: "change the unit formation to melee and attack move"-macro with one button. (*edit probably all hotkey combinations are possible, this saves a lot of time for the user of macros)

You press the "+" button and the selected units change the stance to melee and the sword symbol for the attack move appears immediately.

[spoiler=melee and attack move combined][/spoiler]

The file doesn't exist in the original gamedata and you have to add a modified file to your gamedata folder.
idk if i get an oos vs real players, but nothing happens online or offline vs bots.
If i can do this then others can do it too - you better ban this from tournaments or EP.

did you use the hotkey file or did you use an external program?

[rsy]

Somebody give me a macro where I press f and the game just plays itself for me

[knusch]

Somebody give me a macro where I press f and the game just plays itself for me

please refer to hazza #bot