Mercenaries and Outlaws.

[Aizamk]

There are only 3 civs out of 14 which can in theory have enough pop space to make outlaws build, but in practice it's only viable for one civ with 2 or 3 outlaw types.

Just send 700w?

[dansil92]

There are only 3 civs out of 14 which can in theory have enough pop space to make outlaws build, but in practice it's only viable for one civ with 2 or 3 outlaw types.

Just send 700w?

Maybe you should try comanchero skirm when you play dutch in your age 2 challenge?

[Kaiserklein]

700w gives you the pop space for 10 renegados :S and usually you need the shipment for other stuff than just a ton of houses

[DracoWolfgand]

Noob question here: Why would sending the Atonement or Dance Hall cards result on you losing? I mean... Is there something about these cards that just royally sucks and I never noticed?

[Ashvin]

Just that there are better cards to send.

[Kaiserklein]

Even just having these cards in your deck reveals your plan, and shipping them means basically wasting a shipment since these cards are usually useless, besides arguably for the china since iron troops are really strong, but still it's way too slow

[Hazza54321]

mercs with normal unit shipments would be op no?

[Kaiserklein]

You mean like shipping 5 jaegers without paying gold and in 40s?

[Hazza54321]

no i mean making mercs from saloon and shipping 9 uhlans rather than merc combat for 3 units first

[DracoWolfgand]

Eh, I still think it is worth it for Japan. You see, it feels nice to have a light cavalry unit that is actually good. Even if you do not plan on basing your whole strategy-Around-The Yojimbos, merely having the option is something that feels nice to me :p.

As for the other civilizations, it is really circunstancial. Iron Troops are great, but they are not essential or anything. Jat Lancers can also occupy a neat role, but as you said, the opponent is probably gonna see then coming and invest on a lot of light cavalry to deal with it. And, as for Ronins... Well, they are worth considering if your opponent uses a lot of heavy cavalry, but not so much the rest of the time. Then again, just because you play the card, it doesnt mean you have to base your whole tactic around that given unit: Dance Hall( And Atonement ) is still just one card, after all. You have twenty four others you can choose: You should just think of the unit it unlocks as a extra option rather then the core of your army.

[Kaiserklein]

no i mean making mercs from saloon and shipping 9 uhlans rather than merc combat for 3 units first

Yes that would be a serious merc build and not a troll one like I do. You'd ship 700g to age, ship units if you need them, upgrade uhlans to veteran. It can be pretty good if you get good mercs.
Though obviously in the mid-long run it makes advanced mercs and royal mint less OP when half your units aren't mercs, but you should lose before that point if you ship those cards so early.

[TNT333]

Best is renegados cheap and pop cost can be fixed frm that card

[TNT333]

Pistoleros are actually surprisingly strong but the pop space is killer. The civs that can make use of them most effectively are germany (duh), china, and sioux. I have a build with china where i make pistoleros and cossacks from the consulate, which when combined with diciples makes for a pretty strong musk-huss type composition and has the element of surprise from actual strong colonial play out of china. I was planning on posting the build sometime- takes advantage of a few china perks. Germany can use that house card and doesn't have musks so they are especially usefull. Sioux can ship 10 Pistoleros for 500 coin which can be a very strong power spike. Combined with axe riders and your warchief speed aura, maybe even some teepees it can give you access to some really good siege in colonial. Dutch can make use of pistoleros if they are gonna be stuck in colonial but you have to build a lot of houses- alternatively Comanchero + dutch skirms age 2 has potential. The repentance/dance hall card reduces pistoleros to 3 pop, which is something to consider.

Renegados are really really good but the animation is awful. The wiki suggests that britain can use them by combining dance hall and the saloon upgrade to make them only 2 pop and make up for a lack of skirmishers but I personally think it would never be worthwhile. Technically though since britain has lots of population space very early it is possible that a saloon build would be possible, but I have never tried it personally. Since britain gets pretty strong units age 2 (as opposed to dutch, china, germany) i would say it would be more for the lolz.

Best mercenaries are Jaegers, Highlanders, and Mamelukes. Black Riders are strong but have a very low fire rate and have melee resist intead of ranged resist. Germany can send improved mercenaries and team cav attack + arsenal upgrade to bring them up to insane stats. Same with hackapells- germany can abuse cards and arsenal to make them very strong, dutch & russia have cav combat + arsenal but probably not worthwhile.

Fusiliers are a good unit too but the cost is very high. They are unique in that they have a very strong multiplier against light infantry at range making them potent counters to Aztec erk coy combo, and rattan shields should you ever encounter them.

Barbary corsair is probably the worst mercenary in almost any situation. Germany might be able to abuse them with speed upgrades and improved mercenaries but i think they would still be terrible.

Has anyone ever got team cav attack+ improved mercenaries + arsenal mamelukes? I would be interested to see those in action

Iron troops are absolutely amazing units against everything but heavy cav. This is unfortunate because china is the only civ that can get them and china doesn't have any decent anti cav. Team games however, where someone can make goons/ruyt/erk, they could be worthwhile as they actually beat skirmishers, and melt musketeers (this is true of flamethrowers too, another unique china unit made useless because of china's trash anticav)

Lil bombards

[DracoWolfgand]

Pistoleros are actually surprisingly strong but the pop space is killer. The civs that can make use of them most effectively are germany (duh), china, and sioux. I have a build with china where i make pistoleros and cossacks from the consulate, which when combined with diciples makes for a pretty strong musk-huss type composition and has the element of surprise from actual strong colonial play out of china. I was planning on posting the build sometime- takes advantage of a few china perks. Germany can use that house card and doesn't have musks so they are especially usefull. Sioux can ship 10 Pistoleros for 500 coin which can be a very strong power spike. Combined with axe riders and your warchief speed aura, maybe even some teepees it can give you access to some really good siege in colonial. Dutch can make use of pistoleros if they are gonna be stuck in colonial but you have to build a lot of houses- alternatively Comanchero + dutch skirms age 2 has potential. The repentance/dance hall card reduces pistoleros to 3 pop, which is something to consider.

Renegados are really really good but the animation is awful. The wiki suggests that britain can use them by combining dance hall and the saloon upgrade to make them only 2 pop and make up for a lack of skirmishers but I personally think it would never be worthwhile. Technically though since britain has lots of population space very early it is possible that a saloon build would be possible, but I have never tried it personally. Since britain gets pretty strong units age 2 (as opposed to dutch, china, germany) i would say it would be more for the lolz.

Best mercenaries are Jaegers, Highlanders, and Mamelukes. Black Riders are strong but have a very low fire rate and have melee resist intead of ranged resist. Germany can send improved mercenaries and team cav attack + arsenal upgrade to bring them up to insane stats. Same with hackapells- germany can abuse cards and arsenal to make them very strong, dutch & russia have cav combat + arsenal but probably not worthwhile.

Fusiliers are a good unit too but the cost is very high. They are unique in that they have a very strong multiplier against light infantry at range making them potent counters to Aztec erk coy combo, and rattan shields should you ever encounter them.

Barbary corsair is probably the worst mercenary in almost any situation. Germany might be able to abuse them with speed upgrades and improved mercenaries but i think they would still be terrible.

Has anyone ever got team cav attack+ improved mercenaries + arsenal mamelukes? I would be interested to see those in action

Iron troops are absolutely amazing units against everything but heavy cav. This is unfortunate because china is the only civ that can get them and china doesn't have any decent anti cav. Team games however, where someone can make goons/ruyt/erk, they could be worthwhile as they actually beat skirmishers, and melt musketeers (this is true of flamethrowers too, another unique china unit made useless because of china's trash anticav)

Lil bombards

Lil Bombard suck: You invest over a thousand gold into a unit that is probably going to get shot down by Culverins before it even fires its first shot. I guess you could ENTERTAIN making then against civilizations with no proper anti-artillery artillery( Like the Sioux ), but they would have to be incredibly well defended to be worth the investment.

[duckzilla]

Lil Bombards are real crap. Imo, they can only be useful for countries without artillery, so basically India and China.