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Usually Ottos have everything, and they decide what to do first, and Russians scout for Ottos' actions to decide what to do to cope with. Now do we have some other ideas such as an universal and error-tolerable builds allowing flexibility to cope with different tactics from Ottos(including early forward pressure/rush, SFF, FF or even FI)?

If u scout that otto aged with the tower you could rush I guess, but if it's vs a decent player that won't work. Resign button is your best bet, or heavy water I guess

gibson wrote:If u scout that otto aged with the tower you could rush I guess, but if it's vs a decent player that won't work. Resign button is your best bet, or heavy water I guess

Well years ago I would choose to resign, but not now. It's interesting for me to think about it. Ottos Aging with the tower makes Russians even harder to rush though, and if failed to follow up in terms of aging, Russians will go die, the same as you said, gg

Yea but if otto ages with the tower you know they will make ff. If you rush and he's playing in age 2 it's auto lose for Russia.

Rushing is probably always gonna be a loss unless otto fucks up

gibson wrote:Yea but if otto ages with the tower you know they will make ff. If you rush and he's playing in age 2 it's auto lose for Russia.

That makes sense. But quite often, they will still age up successfully, so it's important for Russians to develop economy allowing further possibilities while rushing.

Kaiserklein wrote:Rushing is probably always gonna be a loss unless otto fucks up

Yeah a better way is to pressure but at the same time develop the economy as early as possible, as best as possible, pretty tough though

Otto has always been like this.

Same deck could be 3 or 4 very viable strats, even on EP.

Biggest mistake most otto players make is gearing their deck too heavily to their predetermined plan, nullifying their versatile advantage.

Scouting otto is very important, but Russia holds on (in every MU) because their units are free. No one besides brigs scout well anyways.

Kaiserklein wrote:Rushing is probably always gonna be a loss unless otto fucks up

Well the only way Russia can win in general is if otto fucks up, and I think rushing vs their ff gives otto a bigger margin for error than just sitting back and waiting to get right clicked

gibson wrote:

Kaiserklein wrote:Rushing is probably always gonna be a loss unless otto fucks up

Well the only way Russia can win in general is if otto fucks up, and I think rushing vs their ff gives otto a bigger margin for error than just sitting back and waiting to get right clicked

Well, I agree.

deleted_user wrote:Otto has always been like this.

Same deck could be 3 or 4 very viable strats, even on EP.

Biggest mistake most otto players make is gearing their deck too heavily to their predetermined plan, nullifying their versatile advantage.

Scouting otto is very important, but Russia holds on (in every MU) because their units are free. No one besides brigs scout well anyways.

Couldn't agree more! It's important, but it's hard though. Same actions can mean different strats. After a series of scouting have been made and the real intention of Otto players has been detected, Russians have already went too far to turn around for further reactions.

deleted_user wrote:Otto has always been like this.

Same deck could be 3 or 4 very viable strats, even on EP.

Biggest mistake most otto players make is gearing their deck too heavily to their predetermined plan, nullifying their versatile advantage.

Scouting otto is very important, but Russia holds on (in every MU) because their units are free. No one besides brigs scout well anyways.

By the way, may I ask what is MU short for? These years I only stayed in domestic forums of AOE3 in China, this is the first time to really spend time on ESOC and start learning all these Phraseology in English.

gibson wrote:

Kaiserklein wrote:Rushing is probably always gonna be a loss unless otto fucks up

Well the only way Russia can win in general is if otto fucks up, and I think rushing vs their ff gives otto a bigger margin for error than just sitting back and waiting to get right clicked

But otto can totally play age 2, and even if they ff it's incredibly easy to hold a rush tbh. I think best bet for russia is to have a rather defensive bh, and then adapt to what otto does. Age up if you see a ff, strel coss if you see a foundry, musk strel if you see a stable, etc.

Imo, just mass as much russian shit as you can, ship CM right before he right clicks and maybe even vill pull same time with CM. Then it's up to next 10 seconds if you win or lose.

This is versus FF. Versus colonial its easier, just spam strelets and keep your TC fire on abus.

Also raiding can be good as otto don't usually have vill hp up.

somppukunkku wrote:Imo, just mass as much russian shit as you can, ship CM right before he right clicks and maybe even vill pull same time with CM. Then it's up to next 10 seconds if you win or lose.

This is versus FF. Versus colonial its easier, just spam strelets and keep your TC fire on abus.

Also raiding can be good as otto don't usually have vill hp up.

What is your overall opinion? Didn't quite follow you.

Kaiserklein wrote:

gibson wrote:

Kaiserklein wrote:Rushing is probably always gonna be a loss unless otto fucks up

Well the only way Russia can win in general is if otto fucks up, and I think rushing vs their ff gives otto a bigger margin for error than just sitting back and waiting to get right clicked

But otto can totally play age 2, and even if they ff it's incredibly easy to hold a rush tbh. I think best bet for russia is to have a rather defensive bh, and then adapt to what otto does. Age up if you see a ff, strel coss if you see a foundry, musk strel if you see a stable, etc.

Yea in general, this is the best one. From the very start, Russians should be able to give themselves more flexible choices, rather than go into any specific strats too aggressively.

_JDK_solarwind wrote:

deleted_user wrote:Otto has always been like this.

Same deck could be 3 or 4 very viable strats, even on EP.

Biggest mistake most otto players make is gearing their deck too heavily to their predetermined plan, nullifying their versatile advantage.

Scouting otto is very important, but Russia holds on (in every MU) because their units are free. No one besides brigs scout well anyways.

By the way, may I ask what is MU short for? These years I only stayed in domestic forums of AOE3 in China, this is the first time to really spend time on ESOC and start learning all these Phraseology in English.

MU means match up, for example otto vs russia is one match up

Kaiserklein wrote:

_JDK_solarwind wrote:

deleted_user wrote:Otto has always been like this.

Same deck could be 3 or 4 very viable strats, even on EP.

Biggest mistake most otto players make is gearing their deck too heavily to their predetermined plan, nullifying their versatile advantage.

Scouting otto is very important, but Russia holds on (in every MU) because their units are free. No one besides brigs scout well anyways.

By the way, may I ask what is MU short for? These years I only stayed in domestic forums of AOE3 in China, this is the first time to really spend time on ESOC and start learning all these Phraseology in English.

MU means match up, for example otto vs russia is one match up

Thanks a lot!

Kaiserklein wrote:

gibson wrote:

Kaiserklein wrote:Rushing is probably always gonna be a loss unless otto fucks up

Well the only way Russia can win in general is if otto fucks up, and I think rushing vs their ff gives otto a bigger margin for error than just sitting back and waiting to get right clicked

But otto can totally play age 2, and even if they ff it's incredibly easy to hold a rush tbh. I think best bet for russia is to have a rather defensive bh, and then adapt to what otto does. Age up if you see a ff, strel coss if you see a foundry, musk strel if you see a stable, etc.

i mean you'd only rush if you see them age with a tower. Problem is you get right clicked if they play age 2 and right clicked if they ff.

Yeah but often you're gonna be already building bh when otto is not up yet, so you can't always rely on scouting the age up politician

It's close, otto ages 350-410 usually so if you start bh at 415 at the latest your musk are gonna be out a little late but thats not a huge deal. The point is your want otto to be trading Jans for musk early so that they don't have a big mass of Jans when they get falcs, mams etc and slowing down his build with the light pressure

Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah but often you're gonna be already building bh when otto is not up yet, so you can't always rely on scouting the age up politician

Yeah that's the problem. If Russians wanted to be more conservative, they were supposed to do bh for the worst concerns.

gibson wrote:It's close, otto ages 350-410 usually so if you start bh at 415 at the latest your musk are gonna be out a little late but thats not a huge deal. The point is your want otto to be trading Jans for musk early so that they don't have a big mass of Jans when they get falcs, mams etc and slowing down his build with the light pressure

Yeah, slow them down and then speed myself up

gibson wrote:It's close, otto ages 350-410 usually so if you start bh at 415 at the latest your musk are gonna be out a little late but thats not a huge deal. The point is your want otto to be trading Jans for musk early so that they don't have a big mass of Jans when they get falcs, mams etc and slowing down his build with the light pressure

Idk, tower + tc also one shoot ruskets, and he'll get jans out super fast after starting to age, and the 4 huss threat upon age up... To me it feels like rushing this is suicide

I'm now trying to summarize gentlemen's opinions. Most of you think it is really tough for Russia to make it in terms of a match-up with Ottomans(especially when Ottos are doing FF), and Russians should avoid impulsive rushing when determining the opponent is doing FF, otherwise Russians will be very easily punished, since decent players of Ottos will defend themselves very well, and rushing doesn't really help preventing the opponents to age up.
Should a Russian player place his barrack near his own base, to be more conservative, rather than too aggressively rush the Ottos. Give light pressure to slow Ottos' build down, while speeding his own economies up, always leave himself flexible choices to react accordingly.