What is the best civilization at the following strategies: Rush, Boom, and Turtle?

[DracoWolfgand]

... So, yeah, the title explains itself :p. I will give my own personal two cents:

Rush: Sioux. Like all Native civilizations, they are quite fast to go to the Colonial Age, what is obviously a plus by itself. And, of the three, they have some of the best raiding units on the Colonial Age: The Bow Rider being a light cavalry unit avaliable on the colonial age that has no attack penalty against villagers, and the Axe Rider being essentially a mid-term between the Uhlan and the Hussar. I say that, but, under the right circunstances( That is, with enough villagers on the Fire Pit doing the Fire Dance, or when they are being boosted by the War Chief aura after the card has been sent ), the Axe Rider has the potential to actually hit-Harder-Then the Uhlan, what is pretty impressive.

Boom: The Portuguese. I think it is quite easy to underestimate just how good getting a free Town Center on the-Colonial-Age actually is. Their transition from the Discovery Age to the Colonial Age is a but klutzier, but if they are undisturbed during that, -Especially-On Team Games, they have the potential to have perhaps the fastest transition to the Fortress Age... With the possible exception of the Ottomans, but on the Ottomans it is mostly because they have to expend no food on Settlers, so again, left undisturbed, literally the only thing they have to worry about during a Fast Fortress is actually gathering the food to age up, what is a advantage that almost makes up for how slow their economy is on most other regards.

Turtle: The Japanese. Now, that one was a hard call for me, because I had to look at two aspects: First of all, how good a civilization is-At-Forcing a game to drag: And secound... How much a civilization benefits from turtling. I went with the Japanese because their solid defenses, Shrines-based economy, and having some of the most upgradeable units in the game that only get stronger per each Wonder you build makes then seem like quite "all-rounded" turtlers. Although I will admit they do not actually have the best defenses on the game, though: I would say looking at that alone it would be a close tie between the Portuguese and the Chinese...

[TNT333]

Rush: iro with the fast war hut, good shipments, good eco with the 5v and 2 tps
Boom: Ports
Turtle:?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Rush: Otto, Iro, Russia, India, Aztecs.
Boom/turtle (since it is the same lol): Japan, Brit, Dutch, Aztecs

[deleted_user0]

You forgot ports, for turtle.

[[Armag] diarouga]

True.

[deleted_user0]

anyway, i think aoe3 has only 2 real categories, and a few sub categories, determining play for like the first 12 minutes. You have Pressure and No Pressure.

Pressure = P-Rush (5413 russia), P-TimingPush (for example, otto jan abus timing), P-Boom (forward base, take map and boom tp's or WP or whatever, but also usually the 12 sepoy rush into 300 export big trickle etc), P-Tech (usually a cav or musk semi, but also iro 4 kanya 10 toma semi)

No Pressure = NP-Boom (typically brit manor boom etc, but also water boom), NP-Tech (Ports FI for example), NP-TimingPush (Mass in base, then break out) NP-Turtle (Kinda the defensive variation of a rush, but a little bit more booming. Can make walls, or ship units at time, or CM, to hold defensively.)

Obviously, these sub categories sometimes overlap a little, or people change their minds halfway.

[dansil92]

Iroquois turtle is underrated. The old great house turtle was untouchable before it got nerfed, though it is still pretty good. Not like, tournament level good, but definitely viable at ms-lt level

[deleted_user0]

it's just a poor CM card now. it used to be OP, now it's useless. typical early aoe3 balancing haha

[[Armag] diarouga]

What was the difference?

[deleted_user0]

great house is -25% tc cost and +50% attack. it used to be -50% tc cost and +100% attack. it was deemed op, but this may also have to do with the fact that ppl didnt use tp's to semi or ff. im not sure if it would still be op nowadays, on re, sure, cause iro is op, but on EP, i dont think so. -33% +75% might be balanced. though tbh i dont think iro really needs that card and i think its better for the game if its shit rather than useful

[dansil92]

great house is -25% tc cost and +50% attack. it used to be -50% tc cost and +100% attack. it was deemed op, but this may also have to do with the fact that ppl didnt use tp's to semi or ff. im not sure if it would still be op nowadays, on re, sure, cause iro is op, but on EP, i dont think so. -33% +75%

The 100% damage did ruin falconet shipments quite happily if i remember correctly? Sometimes people would ship improved buildings too. I would be curious if new strats/ asian civs would be able to deal with it

[[Armag] diarouga]

I see, Iro is an agressive civ anyway, so I don't think it would be relevant.

[deleted_user0]

I see, Iro is an agressive civ anyway, so I don't think it would be relevant.

it is now, but with how good this card was and maybe also the meta or other things that were different at the time, iro also had the option to boom and turtle tc's kinda like ports does.

[n0el]

And you could build you age 1 travois into a warhut

[dansil92]

I see, Iro is an agressive civ anyway, so I don't think it would be relevant.

4 light cannon shipment + big buttons+ 16 tomas. Sometimes the ram shipments. Iro used to scale really well

[[Armag] diarouga]

And you could build you age 1 travois into a warhut

You can still build a stable with it iirc.

[n0el]

ya but you have to save it until you reach age2 right?

[deleted_user0]

ya but you have to save it until you reach age2 right?

yes

[n0el]

iirc you could build you age1 travois into a warhut in age 1

[deleted_user0]

iirc you could build you age1 travois into a warhut in age 1

i still feel like tp is better, or farm. but yea, that would be op on a 300w start

[n0el]

well no one made TP's since they cost 250W.

[jgals]

Boom/turtle not the same thing. Some civs cant turtle even if they are boom civs. Ports, brits for example cant really turtle all game long because they need to expand their base for hunts/mines etc. I would say that Japan and India are the real star turtle civs. Actually dutch as well and Otto too with fast age strats. India/otto doesn't go through hunts as quickly so they don't need to expand and they get agra. Also zams are great antiraid units. Japan obvious.


iro is the best at rush along with otto and az. Sioux actually sucks at rushing in a lot of cases. '

top 3 booms are probably Brit, Japan Port in that order. Dutch is ok but tapers off vs brit/port. Warchief civs are proven to be the fastest to max vils(sooix) and fastest to Imp (iro) but these booms require you to be so commited to build orders/cards that you will be helpless if the enemy tried to do anything so even though technically they are the fastest in practical cases those booms are not realistic.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Boom/turtle not the same thing.

There used to be a difference on nilla, because the goal of turtling was to hold a rush, while a boom was meant to beat turtle strats while losing to rushes, but this is not true anymore. Today you go for a versatile start, and adapt if you get rushed. Thus, turtle and boom are the same thing.

Some civs cant turtle even if they are boom civs.

Really?

Ports, brits for example cant really turtle all game long because they need to expand their base for hunts/mines etc.

Nice you say that because Port, with japan, is the best turtle civ. Brit can totally turtle by the way, you just need to go for a timing to get the map at some point.

I would say that Japan and India are the real star turtle civs. Actually dutch as well and Otto too with fast age strats.

Sure, Otto is the true turtle civ.

India/otto doesn't go through hunts as quickly so they don't need to expand and they get agra. Also zams are great antiraid units. Japan obvious.


iro is the best at rush along with otto and az. Sioux actually sucks at rushing in a lot of cases. '

top 3 booms are probably Brit, Japan Port in that order.

Dutch is ok but tapers off vs brit/port. Warchief civs are proven to be the fastest to max vils(sooix) and fastest to Imp (iro) but these booms require you to be so commited to build orders/cards that you will be helpless if the enemy tried to do anything so even though technically they are the fastest in practical cases those booms are not realistic.

[jgals]

Boom/turtle not the same thing.

There used to be a difference on nilla, because the goal of turtling was to hold a rush, while a boom was meant to beat turtle strats while losing to rushes, but this is not true anymore. Today you go for a versatile start, and adapt if you get rushed. Thus, turtle and boom are the same thing.

Some civs cant turtle even if they are boom civs.

Really?

Ports, brits for example cant really turtle all game long because they need to expand their base for hunts/mines etc.
.

yeah, i don't know if you know what a turtle is, but it is a small compact animal that tucks itself in to make itself even smaller and more protected in defense. I know ur English probably is not as OP as ur PR that's why im telling you. So civs that can stay in one tiny place and still boom, make army etc are civs with turtle potential. What are you planning on doing as brits/ports when you turtle making mills in age 3?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Boom/turtle not the same thing.

There used to be a difference on nilla, because the goal of turtling was to hold a rush, while a boom was meant to beat turtle strats while losing to rushes, but this is not true anymore. Today you go for a versatile start, and adapt if you get rushed. Thus, turtle and boom are the same thing.

Some civs cant turtle even if they are boom civs.

Really?

Ports, brits for example cant really turtle all game long because they need to expand their base for hunts/mines etc.
.

yeah, i don't know if you know what a turtle is, but it is a small compact animal that tucks itself in to make itself even smaller and more protected in defense. I know ur English probably is not as OP as ur PR that's why im telling you. So civs that can stay in one tiny place and still boom, make army etc are civs with turtle potential. What are you planning on doing as brits/ports when you turtle making mills in age 3?

Make walls and expand? :O