Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

France Lurivar
Crossbow
Posts: 6
Joined: Jan 22, 2019

Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

  • Quote

Post by Lurivar »

Hello everyone,

I've been playing with AOE3 with a friend for a few weeks now, and we started multiplayer recently. We read some guides and all, but while we had great successes on games tagged noob, we have been completely wrecked otherwise, so I'd like to get some advice from better players to see what I could do better.
Note that we usually play in team 2v2 no treaty, with him either rushing or FF with Ottoman, and me booming with Russians. The goal is for him to keep the attention of the ennemy team for me to boom enough so I can 1v2 at the end if he hasn't already won by himself. We also play with TAD and TWC.

Here's my deck : Image

My strategy is usually as follows :

Age 1
I start by getting all the crates, starting with food, then make my peasants hunt, except for one building a house. As soon as I get 270 food I make a new batch of peasants and order them to go hunt automatically. I keep a peasant to herd, even though I'm not really good at it. I use my explorer to get as many treasures as I can, mostly scouting around my base to find good herdables at the same time. Once I have 14 peasants, I create 6 more and put them on gold, then age up with the wood guy.
My first shipment is Distributivism, second is Economic Theory.

Age 2
I don't usually stay at this age for long. Most of the time I'll just build a house then manage my peasants to get enough to ageup again ASAP with the fast ageup guy. In the meantime I send Sevastopol. While aging up from age2 to 3, I put most of my peasants on wood, and get the woodcrates too, with a few staying on food (around 4/5) and 1 or 2 on gold.

Age 3
This is where things get tricky. I start by making a new TC with my explorer, next to my first one, and send the Refrigeration (+25% food) shipment. What I do next depends on how well my ally did. If he's keeping the ennemy at bay, I'll usually build a third TC immediately and send the +25% gold shipment as soon as I can. If he's been repelled, I'll build a barracks before my third TC, and send the church upgrade shipment first. From this point on I'll make as many peasants as fast as I can with all my TC, putting them all on food until I get more food than I lose, then put them on gold and age to 4 with cossacks or oprichniks.
As with the next age, this one is tricky because it's the one where I'm mostly defenseless against an attack, and I don't really know how to handle with without crippling my boom.

Age 4
Pretty much the same as Age3. Usually the age where I start making mills and coin-mills (I don't know the english name). I usually send my factories as my first Age4 shipments, then all the mills and coin-mills production bonuses. I put my factories usually on gold, sometime on wood if I don't have enough.
While at this point I usually have enough economy to start making an army and upgrading them with the church without stopping my boom, the first half of the age is still pretty dangerous, as I'll have only mostly Strelets or veteran Strelets at best. In any case, I try to AgeUp to 5 ASAP with the 2000 gold guy.

Age 5
If I get here, it's usually a win for us. I might be a bit in trouble in the first 1/2 minutes after the age up since it took me so much to ageup, but after that my economy is usually good enough to 1v2 while my partner catches up as fast as he can. I usually get to age5 at around 17 to 20min. I'll start by building a capitol and get all the production upgrades. I'll prioritize the boyard shipment, then the cavalry creation speed, then the infantry ones. I usually upgrade Cossacks and Muskets to Imperial, then just spam them until the ennemy can't keep up.


And voilà. So tl;dr, I usually manage age 1 without any problem, and if I get to age5 I win most of the times, but age 2/3 to 4 is problematic because I'm really militarily weak.
Any advice on how to have a better/faster boom, what to change in my deck, or even better : how not to be so defenseless in the mid game without crippling my boom would really be appreciated. Thanks !
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Honestly this BO is a bit too greedy for supremacy :D
France Lurivar
Crossbow
Posts: 6
Joined: Jan 22, 2019

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by Lurivar »

Which part do you think I should tone down, and with what would you change it ? :hmm: :?:
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

  • Quote

Post by Mitoe »

As Diarouga said, this is probably too greedy. Your biggest problem, I think, is that you're sending very low-value shipments in the early stages of the game. In fact, the only shipments you have in your deck that pay off immediately are 11 Musketeers and 1600 Wood, while the rest take several minutes each to pay off. You are sending cards like Economic Theory and Sevastopol very early into the game. Consider it this way:

Sending Economic Theory this early into the game it's only worth 1.4 - 1.7 villagers--if you consider that the cost of your villagers is 90 food each, that's less than 200 food worth of resources. It does get better over time, but it takes a very long time to be the same value as a typical Colonial Age shipment (which is around 600 or 700 resources). It's typically better to save this shipment until later in the game where you have maybe 50-60+ villagers, and even then it's a bit iffy.

Sevastopol is also very low value. In fact, this card probably nets you almost nothing in terms of resources in a normal game. If you're building it because you want to be able to construct walls and blockhouses and stuff very quickly, consider that you could just send 700 Wood and construct them earlier--essentially for free. Sevastopol is more of a tactical super late-game card, where you have so many resources that value no longer matters, and you just want to be able to rebuild your buildings very quickly in new locations.


So I think a good place to start would be to add some more shipments into your deck that pay off immediately, like 700 Wood or 5 Cossack. Not only are these significantly higher value than cards like Sevastopol or Economic Theory, but it's also more flexible if you're being rushed or something similar. If I were you I would take out "TEAM Blockhouse Hitpoints" and "Sevastopol" for these cards. :)

I think you might also find it easier to make Town Centers and also have military units if you send a shipment like 1000 Wood in Age 3, before you consider sending something like Refrigeration (25% food) or Royal Mint (25% coin). You could maybe take out Exotic Hardwoods for this.

I could say more but I think this is the main issue for you at the moment. Hopefully this was helpful :)
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

Didn't read everything, but i'll throw some comments in.

You don't want to have vils on gold in age 1. Just queue up to 14 villagers and try to age up that way, instead of the 20 you're doing. Or at most go for 17 if you feel like you're really too far from 800f at the 14th vil popping.

Since you're gonna age up much faster to colonial now, don't send eco theory after distributivism, keep the shipment for colonial instead. Colonial is btw an age which russians are really good at, so you might want to stay longer there.

And yeah you need more short term cards in your deck. For example 5 cossacks and 13 strelets to rush or defend, 700w and 700g for infrastructures and mass. In fortress 1000w for town centers is better than sevastopol, and 2 falcs are great.

Also the 2v1 thing isn't really good, usually you want to be playing as a team, so for example rushing together or one of you going ff while the other defends. Against decent players, you won't ever be able to fight 2v1.

And btw it's fine if you don't go full boom. Russia makes villagers faster anyway so you'll naturally outboom most civs, especially if you have more than one towncenter. Better be able to defend with 5 cossacks, 2 falconets, training units, only 1 towncenter... if it means you keep map control and stay alive. Eco cards and having a bunch of vils won't be useful if you're out of hunts or if you get pushed hard.

General advice: watch some streams to see how better players do it
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Turkey HUMMAN
Lancer
Posts: 817
Joined: Apr 16, 2017
ESO: HUMMAN

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by HUMMAN »

I think your playtstyle is close to khorixt. You can watch his games.
Image
User avatar
Canada Warno
Dragoon
Donator 08
Posts: 426
Joined: Jul 2, 2016
ESO: Warno

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

  • Quote

Post by Warno »

I think the best way to learn a civ is to watch some first person streams.
You may never be as fast as these guys but it at least gives you an insight into a better play style.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5otYa1HUUjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d2PeX5OcjI
User avatar
Great Britain thomasgreen6
Lancer
Posts: 548
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
ESO: Thomasgreen6
Location: UK

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by thomasgreen6 »

The previous guys have all given good advice. Another useful way to learn is by reading the strategy guides on the strategy wall section of the forums by going to: forums (top left) then going to age of empires 3 ==> strategy ==> strategy guides. You can find guides for every civilisation there including Russians.
'I'm gonna win this and I'm just gonna enjoy it' - Tibia 2k18

http://www.Twitch.tv/thomasgreen6
France Lurivar
Crossbow
Posts: 6
Joined: Jan 22, 2019

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by Lurivar »

Thanks for all the replies, I'll try to change my deck accordingly, and watch/read those videos and guides to get better !
User avatar
Canada dansil92
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2231
Joined: Nov 3, 2018
ESO: dansil92

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by dansil92 »

@Lurivar im a bit lower level than the above players but here is my advice- for team games your train cards are good but in 1v1 they are a bit greedy and russian infantry trains faster than normal anyways- a russian deck for team should always have 5 cossacks 700 wood & 700 coin. 13 strelets is good too. I think age 4 you should really have 2 heavy cannon and 2 falcs age three as well.
Generally you are playing very eco and defense heavy which isnt really Russia's strength. They don't have vill shipments so playing aggressively and taking map control is pretty important.
Image
User avatar
France Guigs
Tournament Admin
Posts: 941
Joined: Jan 22, 2017
ESO: Guigs
Location: France

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by Guigs »

Kaiserklein wrote:Didn't read everything, but i'll throw some comments in.

You don't want to have vils on gold in age 1. Just queue up to 14 villagers and try to age up that way, instead of the 20 you're doing. Or at most go for 17 if you feel like you're really too far from 800f at the 14th vil popping.

Since you're gonna age up much faster to colonial now, don't send eco theory after distributivism, keep the shipment for colonial instead. Colonial is btw an age which russians are really good at, so you might want to stay longer there.

And yeah you need more short term cards in your deck. For example 5 cossacks and 13 strelets to rush or defend, 700w and 700g for infrastructures and mass. In fortress 1000w for town centers is better than sevastopol, and 2 falcs are great.

Also the 2v1 thing isn't really good, usually you want to be playing as a team, so for example rushing together or one of you going ff while the other defends. Against decent players, you won't ever be able to fight 2v1.

And btw it's fine if you don't go full boom. Russia makes villagers faster anyway so you'll naturally outboom most civs, especially if you have more than one towncenter. Better be able to defend with 5 cossacks, 2 falconets, training units, only 1 towncenter... if it means you keep map control and stay alive. Eco cards and having a bunch of vils won't be useful if you're out of hunts or if you get pushed hard.

General advice: watch some streams to see how better players do it


I just liked for your signature
Image

Image
User avatar
Austria supahons
Dragoon
Posts: 357
Joined: Feb 11, 2018
ESO: supahons

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by supahons »

Change your deck to something like this. For 2v2 you can use a 1v1 deck in general and modify it slightly (for 3v3 you need a different deck)

Image

Greedier version, probably better for your playstyle. You don't need so many boost cards at lower ranks, because the macro is usually bad and the average game length longer, then a few more late game cards help you more.

Image
France Lurivar
Crossbow
Posts: 6
Joined: Jan 22, 2019

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by Lurivar »

supahons wrote:Image


Would it not be best to replace the +15% food in mills at age 1 for the +25% coins in coin-mills at age 3 for this one ? And then put the factories on food instead of coin ? Also shouldn't the Church Upgrade shipment be there somewhere, just because of how much it gives ? Guard level for all units for 900w/2500g seems too much to pass.

In any case, thanks for all the advices, we managed to beat someone who crushed us only a few days ago.
This is my deck right now, after some modifications because of your reply, but it's not far from the one I used to get the victory I mentioned:
Image

Edit : Also, are forts completely useless in supremacy ? I barely ever see them, and was wondering if national redoubt is really worth what it seems to be.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by Kaiserklein »

Lecastete wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Didn't read everything, but i'll throw some comments in.

You don't want to have vils on gold in age 1. Just queue up to 14 villagers and try to age up that way, instead of the 20 you're doing. Or at most go for 17 if you feel like you're really too far from 800f at the 14th vil popping.

Since you're gonna age up much faster to colonial now, don't send eco theory after distributivism, keep the shipment for colonial instead. Colonial is btw an age which russians are really good at, so you might want to stay longer there.

And yeah you need more short term cards in your deck. For example 5 cossacks and 13 strelets to rush or defend, 700w and 700g for infrastructures and mass. In fortress 1000w for town centers is better than sevastopol, and 2 falcs are great.

Also the 2v1 thing isn't really good, usually you want to be playing as a team, so for example rushing together or one of you going ff while the other defends. Against decent players, you won't ever be able to fight 2v1.

And btw it's fine if you don't go full boom. Russia makes villagers faster anyway so you'll naturally outboom most civs, especially if you have more than one towncenter. Better be able to defend with 5 cossacks, 2 falconets, training units, only 1 towncenter... if it means you keep map control and stay alive. Eco cards and having a bunch of vils won't be useful if you're out of hunts or if you get pushed hard.

General advice: watch some streams to see how better players do it


I just liked for your signature

Man there was so much more I wanted to put in there, some good submission to the invite spammer, but no space :(
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Canada dansil92
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2231
Joined: Nov 3, 2018
ESO: dansil92

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by dansil92 »

Lurivar wrote:
supahons wrote:Image


Would it not be best to replace the +15% food in mills at age 1 for the +25% coins in coin-mills at age 3 for this one ? And then put the factories on food instead of coin ? Also shouldn't the Church Upgrade shipment be there somewhere, just because of how much it gives ? Guard level for all units for 900w/2500g seems too much to pass.

In any case, thanks for all the advices, we managed to beat someone who crushed us only a few days ago.
This is my deck right now, after some modifications because of your reply, but it's not far from the one I used to get the victory I mentioned:
Image

Edit : Also, are forts completely useless in supremacy ? I barely ever see them, and was wondering if national redoubt is really worth what it seems to be.


Food card is better with factories in coin. Vills gather coin slower than food but factories gather all resources at equal rates

National redoubt is a good card in team games treaty and free for all but i wouldn't ever use it in 1v1. Forts are expensive to build and don't accomplish much on small maps that a couple blockhouses wouldn't


I like the church card personally, but it's hard to use in fast paced games. Never time to send it tbh. Great in free for all though - Saves a LOT of wood for guard upgrades
Image
User avatar
Austria supahons
Dragoon
Posts: 357
Joined: Feb 11, 2018
ESO: supahons

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by supahons »

[spoiler=spoiler]
Lurivar wrote:
supahons wrote:Image


Would it not be best to replace the +15% food in mills at age 1 for the +25% coins in coin-mills at age 3 for this one ? And then put the factories on food instead of coin ? Also shouldn't the Church Upgrade shipment be there somewhere, just because of how much it gives ? Guard level for all units for 900w/2500g seems too much to pass.

In any case, thanks for all the advices, we managed to beat someone who crushed us only a few days ago.
This is my deck right now, after some modifications because of your reply, but it's not far from the one I used to get the victory I mentioned:
Image

Edit : Also, are forts completely useless in supremacy ? I barely ever see them, and was wondering if national redoubt is really worth what it seems to be.
[/spoiler]

Factories should be on Wood>Coin>Food because of the resource gatherrate. You can change your deck to whatever you plan to do, this is more for a Strelet mass and Otto can play Janissary eg. You can hardly build plantations in 2v2, it's usually gg at this point.
You can never send the churchupgrades in supremacy only the troops but it's more for 1v1 fun. Use it in nr20 for the upgrades.
The reason hardly anyone sends a fort, because it gives the opponent a chance to age or send resources to boom and you're stuck in your base.

*replace the teamfencing or the cav production with gatheringcards or something else, you never need them before age 4-5 or play the other deck, this is just for an optional age 5 lategame
France Lurivar
Crossbow
Posts: 6
Joined: Jan 22, 2019

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by Lurivar »

Thats interesting to know. :hmm:
I didn't know gatherrate was really different between resources, except for factories. I'll change my deck accordingly, thanks !
User avatar
Canada dansil92
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2231
Joined: Nov 3, 2018
ESO: dansil92

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by dansil92 »

Lurivar wrote:Thats interesting to know. :hmm:
I didn't know gatherrate was really different between resources, except for factories. I'll change my deck accordingly, thanks !


Gather rates for seconds are:
European Settlers

Tree: .5
Mill: .67
Plantation: .5
Herdable: 2.0
Huntable: .84
Mine: .6 (Dutch Settler: .69)
Berry Bush: .67
Crate: 8.0
Farm: .5
Image
Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by duckzilla »

dansil92 wrote:
Lurivar wrote:Thats interesting to know. :hmm:
I didn't know gatherrate was really different between resources, except for factories. I'll change my deck accordingly, thanks !


Gather rates for seconds are:
European Settlers

Tree: .5
Mill: .468
Plantation: .355
Herdable: 2.0
Huntable: .84
Mine: .6 (Dutch Settler: .69)
Berry Bush: .67
Crate: 8.0
Farm: .5

See also: https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14218
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
User avatar
Canada dansil92
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2231
Joined: Nov 3, 2018
ESO: dansil92

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by dansil92 »

duckzilla wrote:
dansil92 wrote:
Lurivar wrote:Thats interesting to know. :hmm:
I didn't know gatherrate was really different between resources, except for factories. I'll change my deck accordingly, thanks !


Gather rates for seconds are:
European Settlers

Tree: .5
Mill: .468
Plantation: .355
Herdable: 2.0
Huntable: .84
Mine: .6 (Dutch Settler: .69)
Berry Bush: .67
Crate: 8.0
Farm: .5

See also: https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14218


Ahh yes the walking vill numbers- did anyone ever bother to check the aztec farm potential? Iirc it adds up to around 2 food per second the fastest non fulling mills rate?
Image
User avatar
Netherlands edeholland
ESOC Community Team
Donator 01
Posts: 5033
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: edeholland
GameRanger ID: 4053888
Clan: ESOC

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by edeholland »

dansil92 wrote:
duckzilla wrote:
Show hidden quotes

See also: https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14218


Ahh yes the walking vill numbers- did anyone ever bother to check the aztec farm potential? Iirc it adds up to around 2 food per second the fastest non fulling mills rate?
I wouldn't use duckzilla's numbers when calculating stuff. Lag heavily influences the gather rate, so an offline, online supremacy 1v1 or online treaty 4v4 will yield different results.
User avatar
Portugal Kazamkikaz
Dragoon
Posts: 306
Joined: Dec 27, 2017
ESO: Kazamkikaz
Location: Braga

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by Kazamkikaz »

Lurivar wrote:Thats interesting to know. :hmm:
I didn't know gatherrate was really different between resources, except for factories. I'll change my deck accordingly, thanks !

The problem is not the deck itself but your strategy, too greedy man, i mean you make 20 villagers and age up at 4min:10 sec or more with 400w and when you are in age2 and go directly to age3 without send card like 700c to help you age up faster any type of rush will works vs you even if is colonial milicia rush :hehe:
Cause you and your partner is facing super noobs who is losing for 1 ottoman player in 2v1 you can keep having fun with your strategy but versus a decent noob players will not work.
Sometimes in team game the players like to play some lategame strategies where you will have time to build alot TC and send alot economic cards.
You should try this strategy and see how it works for you, it is better version of your sevastapol strategy, http://aoe3.heavengames.com/strategy/18
My Youtube channel

"If you can't win the fight
don't take the fight"-Aizamk 2016
France Lurivar
Crossbow
Posts: 6
Joined: Jan 22, 2019

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by Lurivar »

Kazamkikaz wrote:
Lurivar wrote:Thats interesting to know. :hmm:
I didn't know gatherrate was really different between resources, except for factories. I'll change my deck accordingly, thanks !

The problem is not the deck itself but your strategy, too greedy man, i mean you make 20 villagers and age up at 4min:10 sec or more with 400w and when you are in age2 and go directly to age3 without send card like 700c to help you age up faster any type of rush will works vs you even if is colonial milicia rush :hehe:
Cause you and your partner is facing super noobs who is losing for 1 ottoman player in 2v1 you can keep having fun with your strategy but versus a decent noob players will not work.
Sometimes in team game the players like to play some lategame strategies where you will have time to build alot TC and send alot economic cards.
You should try this strategy and see how it works for you, it is better version of your sevastapol strategy, http://aoe3.heavengames.com/strategy/18


Yeah sure, don't worry I've also changed how I play in no treaty game :lol:
I was saying that about my new deck in which I favorised the plantation amelioration instead of the mill. :) We're doing better now, and I'll try to find more streams to better myself.
And thanks for the new guide too !
Germany amiggo1999
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 768
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

Re: Advice for a somewhat new Russian player

Post by amiggo1999 »

Just 5 4 13 and win imo
Image Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV