Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

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United States of America noissance
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Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by noissance »

Anyone have a proper BO for this? Played a 1st lt playing aztec on indochina and crushed him using grens with a random build order. Just 1 volley from 8 (carded) grens was enough to siege down a house...
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

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Post by dansil92 »

noissance wrote:Anyone have a proper BO for this? Played a 1st lt playing aztec on indochina and crushed him using grens with a random build order. Just 1 volley from 8 (carded) grens was enough to siege down a house...


I actually do a gren musk rush vs aztec and it works great. I assume you are playing british?
Build order is Virginia Company (not because its better than 3 vills but you will need the pop space for grens-300 wood start get tradepost and send 3 vill vc)

Look for wood treasures, sooner you get a market the better

Age with 500 food. Boom like a vc boss. Around ageup finishing switch 6 vills to coin and most of the rest on food
Send 700 wood 700 coin. Drop a rax and foundry And market. Cue up one musk one gren. Get hunting dogs etc. Assuming you didnt get good treasures
Finish batches. You want 10 - 15 gren and 15-20 musk to push. Ship 700 food for slightly bigger mass, and push as improved grenades arrives.

Your aztec opponent can either run away from his fb and lose it or stand and fight. Mace will lose hard to grens unless they can abuse that tiny range advantage. Puma are a joke against this and coyote will melt from grenades/musk fire

Its a pr15-24 strat i would say, nothing special but it does have an incredible amount of siege
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

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dansil92 wrote:
noissance wrote:Anyone have a proper BO for this? Played a 1st lt playing aztec on indochina and crushed him using grens with a random build order. Just 1 volley from 8 (carded) grens was enough to siege down a house...


I actually do a gren musk rush vs aztec and it works great. I assume you are playing british?
Build order is Virginia Company (not because its better than 3 vills but you will need the pop space for grens-300 wood start get tradepost and send 3 vill vc)

Look for wood treasures, sooner you get a market the better

Age with 500 food. Boom like a vc boss. Around ageup finishing switch 6 vills to coin and most of the rest on food
Send 700 wood 700 coin. Drop a rax and foundry And market. Cue up one musk one gren. Get hunting dogs etc. Assuming you didnt get good treasures
Finish batches. You want 10 - 15 gren and 15-20 musk to push. Ship 700 food for slightly bigger mass, and push as improved grenades arrives.

Your aztec opponent can either run away from his fb and lose it or stand and fight. Mace will lose hard to grens unless they can abuse that tiny range advantage. Puma are a joke against this and coyote will melt from grenades/musk fire

Its a pr15-24 strat i would say, nothing special but it does have an incredible amount of siege

This is about as good as a BO as you're going to get

If you want to try to be extra, extra fast, with good wood treasures age 1 (siberia, mongolia or similar), ship 700c first in age 2. You should have like 60 pop with VC, and drop your rax + art foundry so that they finish when 700c hits, all vills to food. Then boom with 700w 600w after, gren/musk ups after that, or skip 600w. 500f is actually a good politician.
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by Snuden »

I like it.
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

dansil92 wrote:
noissance wrote:Anyone have a proper BO for this? Played a 1st lt playing aztec on indochina and crushed him using grens with a random build order. Just 1 volley from 8 (carded) grens was enough to siege down a house...


I actually do a gren musk rush vs aztec and it works great. I assume you are playing british?
Build order is Virginia Company (not because its better than 3 vills but you will need the pop space for grens-300 wood start get tradepost and send 3 vill vc)

Look for wood treasures, sooner you get a market the better

Age with 500 food. Boom like a vc boss. Around ageup finishing switch 6 vills to coin and most of the rest on food
Send 700 wood 700 coin. Drop a rax and foundry And market. Cue up one musk one gren. Get hunting dogs etc. Assuming you didnt get good treasures
Finish batches. You want 10 - 15 gren and 15-20 musk to push. Ship 700 food for slightly bigger mass, and push as improved grenades arrives.

Your aztec opponent can either run away from his fb and lose it or stand and fight. Mace will lose hard to grens unless they can abuse that tiny range advantage. Puma are a joke against this and coyote will melt from grenades/musk fire

Its a pr15-24 strat i would say, nothing special but it does have an incredible amount of siege

You probably can't hold a rush with VC+grens. Holding with VC is already quite hard.
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by bwinner »

I agree with diarouga, if 10maces come early enough for aztec, you probably will die.
Could be a nice cheese vs wp boom into age up maybe though
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by dansil92 »

As long as the 10 mace are there after 5 grens have popped, with minutemen you'll be ok but before that. .. yeah you're dead haha
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by RalphRid »

dansil92 wrote: ↑
13 Feb 2019, 13:13
As long as everyone takes these fantastic weight loss shakes the 10 mace are there after 5 grens have popped, with minutemen you'll be ok but before that. .. yeah you're dead haha
I hate dealing with an attack like that. I can't seem to get the hang of defending it without being massively behind from then onward.
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by Challe »

Its a semi-troll build. I used to have it perfected a lot of years ago but it will never be viable cause of the skirmisher type units. It is also weak vs dragoons.

Skirmishers can out-kite you.

I believe if you want to play it in a serious way you need to have around 20 to 30 percent of huss mixed in. Maybe 40 grens 30 musks 30 huss. Once grenadiers actually fire they do onsane damage to infantry.
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by dansil92 »

Challe wrote:Its a semi-troll build. I used to have it perfected a lot of years ago but it will never be viable cause of the skirmisher type units. It is also weak vs dragoons.

Skirmishers can out-kite you.

I believe if you want to play it in a serious way you need to have around 20 to 30 percent of huss mixed in. Maybe 40 grens 30 musks 30 huss. Once grenadiers actually fire they do onsane damage to infantry.



^ This

Grens are super strong if they actually start throwing. I think they do way more than falcs if they are allowed to stand and fight, you just can't micro them. Shame they get kited to death against any decent player
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by aligator92 »

I think for a gren rush you cant go VC. My Gren rush build is 3 vill, 700w, 700c, 6 musk
I age with tower+coin
Get to 50 pop and hunting dogs or 60 pop and no market in transition (one vill should build a forward manor), then switch to mainly food and some coin
Upon Age up drop a froward rax and send tower to it. Start making musks
With 700w drop a forward foundry and 3 more manors, start prioritizing the gren batches
As soon as you won't miss a gren batch pull off coin and use 700c when it arrives
Push with 6 musk arriving at the forward tower

Tested it on a wood start and it gave me 21 Musk + 9 Grens at 7:20 with 5 more grens popping at 7:50. All in a forward position
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by Inst »

Boring myself to death with flamethrower + chuk + pike rush. And yes, grens + hussars is a good idea, problem with flamethrowers / grenadiers is their lack of range and low speed. Using cavalry to fix enemy infantry works, but cav will die quickly to enemy melee.
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by dansil92 »

Inst wrote:Boring myself to death with flamethrower + chuk + pike rush. And yes, grens + hussars is a good idea, problem with flamethrowers / grenadiers is their lack of range and low speed. Using cavalry to fix enemy infantry works, but cav will die quickly to enemy melee.


The advantage of grens over flames is that the grenades track, so if some infantry overstays their welcome by a few seconds, even if they retreat the bombs follow. Happened during a game between me and a friend in brit mirror, walked his musks forward, saw the grens and was like NOPE and retreated them back toward his longbows. He was a bit too late so the grenades tracked and shredded his longbows that the musks walked back to. Good match, i like grens in brit mirror if opponent opens double rax

Flames however turn slow and dont have track. The splash damage is actually really disappointing on flames, they rarely damage more than one unit
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by Darwin_ »

Is there really any advantage to going musk/gren over just pure musk? Musks and grens have the same ranged HP per 100 resources/population space (150), and while grens do have over twice the siege per 100/resources and deal area and siege damage, they are countered hard by cavalry and require their own building. Wouldn't simply going double rax muskets be just as effective and more flexible?
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by gibson »

If you can surprise Russia before they have too many cossacks grens shred them. Although I don't know why you'd make them over hus tbh
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by dansil92 »

Darwin_ wrote:Is there really any advantage to going musk/gren over just pure musk? Musks and grens have the same ranged HP per 100 resources/population space (150), and while grens do have over twice the siege per 100/resources and deal area and siege damage, they are countered hard by cavalry and require their own building. Wouldn't simply going double rax muskets be just as effective and more flexible?


Less micro and grens do very well against longbows in a pinch? Improved grenades is a very strong card and allows for a very strong push against infrastructure. I stand behind that its not a high level strat but anything 1st lt or less it is decent


Oh and turns Russian infantry into confetti
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

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Post by aligator92 »

Darwin_ wrote:Is there really any advantage to going musk/gren over just pure musk? Musks and grens have the same ranged HP per 100 resources/population space (150), and while grens do have over twice the siege per 100/resources and deal area and siege damage, they are countered hard by cavalry and require their own building. Wouldn't simply going double rax muskets be just as effective and more flexible?

Surely pure musk is better 999/1000 times but grenadiers are such a fun unit :)
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Re: Grenadier rush/musk-gren rush

Post by deleted_user0 »

gibson wrote:If you can surprise Russia before they have too many cossacks grens shred them. Although I don't know why you'd make them over hus tbh


To siege down blockhouses really fast. Its an alternative to the double rax 1 stable. Instead you go 1rax 1foundry 1stable. You mix about 10 grens, then switch to huss. Make sure grens tank vs musk, and musk go front vs cossack. You add huss to catch raids, raid and to prevent a strelet switch. It's a solid build. You can open rax stable first as well, then add grens after instead of the other way around.

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