Handicap games

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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Handicap games

Post by gibson »

I feel like 10 percent for a major vs a top level player would be pretty even
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Re: Handicap games

Post by Kaiserklein »

It depends a lot on the playstyle imo. Mechanical players don't mind handicap so much even if it's harder to macro (more eco) and to micro (more units). While players who rely more on winning because of mu knowledge and build orders are gonna be disadvantaged because handicap changes the way you play the game. And both of you guys aren't very mechanical players so I feel like handicap wouldn't be that scary.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Handicap games

Post by supahons »

I've only played a few 1v2 so far. If your opponents don't play together and make strategical mistakes, then you have a good chance of winning with a good unit composition. Most <PR20 don't have any chance against a decent skirm/goon micro. A huss semi ff or ff + fortress timing is probably the best then. You certainly have to win in colonial or fortress or try to make it a 1v1 by destroying the eco.

With PR20+ players you certainly will encounter more and more additional obstacles:

*Access to resources? (denied or free to boom?)
*Raid effectiveness (the lower the PR the more likely they will lose vills + overreact with unitproduction)
*Full turtle players? (one player walls the map - ugh)
*Is the other team able to execute a decent rush and outmass you and right click your tc?
*Can you reach the fortress-age and make a good timing/have access to the good units or are you stuck in colonial?

I think it would be quite interesting to see a game 1 topplayer vs 2 good players (without a 10 layer wall lame or some iro+otto rush)

Handicap: It's a good way to test the limits, but totally devastating for the morale of the loser.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by XeeleeFlower »

I would actually really enjoy participating in this. It would be interesting. I'm confident that my friend @auzi and I would do quite well vs a top player.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bwinner1 wrote:even with 10%, I expect gibson to win tbh. I know gibson is approximatly the same lvl like me and I believe I would win very consistently vs kaiser with +10%.

I think that in a good MU you'd lose to a top player with 10% handicap.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kaiserklein wrote:It depends a lot on the playstyle imo. Mechanical players don't mind handicap so much even if it's harder to macro (more eco) and to micro (more units). While players who rely more on winning because of mu knowledge and build orders are gonna be disadvantaged because handicap changes the way you play the game. And both of you guys aren't very mechanical players so I feel like handicap wouldn't be that scary.

I disagree with that statement. I think that the "smart players" would know how to adapt to handicap and create "handicap build orders" to get the most out of the handicap.
There's a difference between a smart player and someone who knows a MU well because he played it 100 times though.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by Snuden »

I'm ready to play any top dawg with a 50% handicap (I am MS)
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Re: Handicap games

Post by supahons »

Snuden wrote:I'm ready to play any top dawg with a 50% handicap (I am MS)

I've played a 1v2 with a 30% boost vs two really good players on the settler map (no resources map) once, and they couldn't compete with my eco.
+5 % is fair if the other player is a bit better, +10% is already too much imo, and everything +15% or more means you really need that boost. Idk if the percentages are different for supremacy and standard maps.

600f-->900f, + 5x ecotheory in age 1 + faster age up(?). It could be a new entertaining gamemode though (Challenge the Topplayer), i'm looking forward to it :lol:
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Re: Handicap games

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Snuden wrote:I'm ready to play any top dawg with a 50% handicap (I am MS)

I'll try with 40% if I meet you on eso.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by HUMMAN »

I am willing to make 1 v2 or handicap if anyone interested.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by Kaiserklein »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:It depends a lot on the playstyle imo. Mechanical players don't mind handicap so much even if it's harder to macro (more eco) and to micro (more units). While players who rely more on winning because of mu knowledge and build orders are gonna be disadvantaged because handicap changes the way you play the game. And both of you guys aren't very mechanical players so I feel like handicap wouldn't be that scary.

I disagree with that statement. I think that the "smart players" would know how to adapt to handicap and create "handicap build orders" to get the most out of the handicap.
There's a difference between a smart player and someone who knows a MU well because he played it 100 times though.

Maybe after playing enough handicap games, but not for the first ones I think.
Basically I was trying to say in a nice way that if I play gibson or bwinner with handicap, there's big chances they're gonna float tons of resources, and still lose fights because of their micro (especially gibson, unless he actually tries). While knowing the mus and builds won't really help.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Handicap games

Post by Jaeger »

I think India could be one of the best civs with handicap lol. Normally it’s very slow, but with handicap its gonna be at least as fast as an Euro civ which is insanely scary.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by Kaiserklein »

Best handicap civ has to be brits. The more vils you have, the more the handicap matters, and brits just have the best eco in the game. And their boom snowballs like crazy with handicap.
Other civs that rely on their eco like india, dutch, japan, ports, and russia and france to some extent, are pretty good with handicap. Civs that rely on their shipments like germany, spain or twc civs are pretty shit because unit shipments aren't boosted by handicap and their boosted eco still isn't insane.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Handicap games

Post by Kaiserklein »

Tried it today, won 2-1 vs bwinner and 1-0 vs castete with 10% handicap. But they can do better when they get used to handicap I'm sure, we need to play more games
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Handicap games

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I used to beat Castete with 10â„… handicap 1 year ago. He improved a lot though.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by QueenOfdestiny »

https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?t=13855#p293194

That's the bo31 Kaiser and Me played once... Im pretty sure I would do better today.
When you the Player with handicap you just need to hold the rush and then you won basically... As longer the game goes as easier it gets
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Re: Handicap games

Post by Kaiserklein »

QueenOfdestiny wrote:https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?t=13855#p293194

That's the bo31 Kaiser and Me played once... Im pretty sure I would do better today.
When you the Player with handicap you just need to hold the rush and then you won basically... As longer the game goes as easier it gets

Playing some right now, I'm up 4-0 ez
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Handicap games

Post by QueenOfdestiny »

Bla bla im drunk...
shit juice :hmm:
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Re: Handicap games

Post by Kaiserklein »

QueenOfdestiny wrote:Bla bla im drunk...

6-0
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Handicap games

Post by QueenOfdestiny »

Kaiserklein wrote:
QueenOfdestiny wrote:Bla bla im drunk...

6-0

I challenge you! grudge match!

Bo 11!
I stream it!
I was drunk yesterday it's - 15% handicap!
shit juice :hmm:
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Re: Handicap games

Post by deleted_user0 »

Kaiserklein wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:It depends a lot on the playstyle imo. Mechanical players don't mind handicap so much even if it's harder to macro (more eco) and to micro (more units). While players who rely more on winning because of mu knowledge and build orders are gonna be disadvantaged because handicap changes the way you play the game. And both of you guys aren't very mechanical players so I feel like handicap wouldn't be that scary.

I disagree with that statement. I think that the "smart players" would know how to adapt to handicap and create "handicap build orders" to get the most out of the handicap.
There's a difference between a smart player and someone who knows a MU well because he played it 100 times though.

Maybe after playing enough handicap games, but not for the first ones I think.
Basically I was trying to say in a nice way that if I play gibson or bwinner with handicap, there's big chances they're gonna float tons of resources, and still lose fights because of their micro (especially gibson, unless he actually tries). While knowing the mus and builds won't really help.


Considering even kickass did this, Im sure every top player has won games vs uhlan and roiarthurbis who used cheats to basically give 10-15% handicap. The mu matters alot for this.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by lemmings121 »

Imo you are underestimating the skill gap to a top player, vs a lt you can probably have a "ok" win rate with 30~~40 handi, would like to see some games to see how it plays out.

In a stream some time ago(i think last years telethon or something?) I won a brit mirror vs a 1lt with 20% for him, and i'm pretty sure i would lose the same mu to a top player with 20% to myself lol

even with handicap, a lower player would get countered in the build + get outmicroed hard by a top player.
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Re: Handicap games

Post by Kaiserklein »

QueenOfdestiny wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
QueenOfdestiny wrote:Bla bla im drunk...

6-0

I challenge you! grudge match!

Bo 11!
I stream it!
I was drunk yesterday it's - 15% handicap!

Sure we can do that. No civ reset, alternated picks
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Handicap games

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Post by princeofkabul »

I have good win % against @deleted_user2 even though he is handicapped person.
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