Intervention

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea, Mitoe's point is very relevant.
Still, I think that this shipment is slightly overrated. When I played a lot with China (2 years ago or so), I used to send it first every game because that's what people usually do but I don't think that it's good. In fact, in the current meta 10 skirm is often a better choice, and I'm starting to prefer 11 changdaos because it allows you to delay the consulate and you're often short on wood as China.

Wut...??? Youre not short on wood wafuq? Also 10%hp is just super good. I would never delay consulate. In fact i would even prefer consulate over rax and getting market ups before making units if i can get away with it.

Shipping intervention first is something you only do vs a musk huss rush or otherwise heavy cav presence. Which is basically what people used to do on re due to bad maps, so the tower ff isnt as good as it is on the plymouth maps of ep.

On maps with good hunts, or in mus with less pressure in age 2, you first send 1000c if youre smart, or otherwise 10 skir/5cav like sircallen said. 11 changdao is defo a good shipment and in certain mus id send it over 9 redcoats, purely for speed and snare purposes, otherwise manchu are also a good anticav. Redcoats are still a great card to send, i like them especially vs ger or spain, sioux and ofc china mirrors.

Intervention was also used succesfully by dyddyd in certain ff strats. And in rare cases its better for india than the 9 sepoy card cuz 1) doesnt cost pop and 2) it doesnt require veteran upgrade

Why 1000c ?

meyou said it, to send a merc shipment. 9 manchus is a great shipment against everything but skirm mass and since your cavalry is great it works well with your army. If your opponent doesn't have a lot of cav (which happens nowadays as anti-meta build), the iron troops are also insane.
Still, I highly doubt you can send 1000c first and get away with it in most MUs. Maybe against Port, Dutch etc but I don't see that working against the semi ff civs.

[deleted_user0]

Yea, Mitoe's point is very relevant.
Still, I think that this shipment is slightly overrated. When I played a lot with China (2 years ago or so), I used to send it first every game because that's what people usually do but I don't think that it's good. In fact, in the current meta 10 skirm is often a better choice, and I'm starting to prefer 11 changdaos because it allows you to delay the consulate and you're often short on wood as China.

Wut...??? Youre not short on wood wafuq? Also 10%hp is just super good. I would never delay consulate. In fact i would even prefer consulate over rax and getting market ups before making units if i can get away with it.

You're always short on wood as China lol. 10% HP is indeed great when you have units, but if it is your first age 3 shipment then you probably won't have more than 20 units, in which case 200w for 10% HP isn't worth. You're going to build the consulate at some point of course but imo it's better to delay it.

Shipping intervention first is something you only do vs a musk huss rush or otherwise heavy cav presence. Which is basically what people used to do on re due to bad maps, so the tower ff isnt as good as it is on the plymouth maps of ep.

On maps with good hunts, or in mus with less pressure in age 2, you first send 1000c if youre smart, or otherwise 10 skir/5cav like sircallen said. 11 changdao is defo a good shipment and in certain mus id send it over 9 redcoats, purely for speed and snare purposes, otherwise manchu are also a good anticav. Redcoats are still a great card to send, i like them especially vs ger or spain, sioux and ofc china mirrors.

Arf, 1000c first is greedy but if you can get away with it great.

Intervention was also used succesfully by dyddyd in certain ff strats. And in rare cases its better for india than the 9 sepoy card cuz 1) doesnt cost pop and 2) it doesnt require veteran upgrade
1) If population is an issue you can just skip one vill and build a house honestly.
2) you're going to get vet sepoy anyway so it's irrelevant.

idk how you play china then, but I dont usually have a shortage of wood as china. only when I lose a village, or get idled really hard maybe. but otherwise, should be totally fine.

10% on your units is going to snowball, and exactly because you don't have many, it's better to get the hp asap since those you have will last longer, especially your hero will tank a few more shots.

1000c is indeed greedy, you have to read the game, but china can get away with quite a lot.

as for india intervention, depends on the strat. preferably i wouldn't ever send either 9 sepoy or intervention.

[deleted_user0]

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Yea, Mitoe's point is very relevant.
Still, I think that this shipment is slightly overrated. When I played a lot with China (2 years ago or so), I used to send it first every game because that's what people usually do but I don't think that it's good. In fact, in the current meta 10 skirm is often a better choice, and I'm starting to prefer 11 changdaos because it allows you to delay the consulate and you're often short on wood as China.

Wut...??? Youre not short on wood wafuq? Also 10%hp is just super good. I would never delay consulate. In fact i would even prefer consulate over rax and getting market ups before making units if i can get away with it.

Shipping intervention first is something you only do vs a musk huss rush or otherwise heavy cav presence. Which is basically what people used to do on re due to bad maps, so the tower ff isnt as good as it is on the plymouth maps of ep.

On maps with good hunts, or in mus with less pressure in age 2, you first send 1000c if youre smart, or otherwise 10 skir/5cav like sircallen said. 11 changdao is defo a good shipment and in certain mus id send it over 9 redcoats, purely for speed and snare purposes, otherwise manchu are also a good anticav. Redcoats are still a great card to send, i like them especially vs ger or spain, sioux and ofc china mirrors.

Intervention was also used succesfully by dyddyd in certain ff strats. And in rare cases its better for india than the 9 sepoy card cuz 1) doesnt cost pop and 2) it doesnt require veteran upgrade

Why 1000c ?

meyou said it, to send a merc shipment. 9 manchus is a great shipment against everything but skirm mass and since your cavalry is great it works well with your army. If your opponent doesn't have a lot of cav (which happens nowadays as anti-meta build), the iron troops are also insane.
Still, I highly doubt you can send 1000c first and get away with it in most MUs. Maybe against Port, Dutch etc but I don't see that working against the semi ff civs.

you can do it for mercs, although tbh usually I would just go IV. you can get away with it vs quite a lot of civs, but ye, not usually vs fre or germany, if those are the ones you mean.

[[Armag] diarouga]

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Yea, Mitoe's point is very relevant.
Still, I think that this shipment is slightly overrated. When I played a lot with China (2 years ago or so), I used to send it first every game because that's what people usually do but I don't think that it's good. In fact, in the current meta 10 skirm is often a better choice, and I'm starting to prefer 11 changdaos because it allows you to delay the consulate and you're often short on wood as China.

Wut...??? Youre not short on wood wafuq? Also 10%hp is just super good. I would never delay consulate. In fact i would even prefer consulate over rax and getting market ups before making units if i can get away with it.

Shipping intervention first is something you only do vs a musk huss rush or otherwise heavy cav presence. Which is basically what people used to do on re due to bad maps, so the tower ff isnt as good as it is on the plymouth maps of ep.

On maps with good hunts, or in mus with less pressure in age 2, you first send 1000c if youre smart, or otherwise 10 skir/5cav like sircallen said. 11 changdao is defo a good shipment and in certain mus id send it over 9 redcoats, purely for speed and snare purposes, otherwise manchu are also a good anticav. Redcoats are still a great card to send, i like them especially vs ger or spain, sioux and ofc china mirrors.

Intervention was also used succesfully by dyddyd in certain ff strats. And in rare cases its better for india than the 9 sepoy card cuz 1) doesnt cost pop and 2) it doesnt require veteran upgrade

Why 1000c ?

meyou said it, to send a merc shipment. 9 manchus is a great shipment against everything but skirm mass and since your cavalry is great it works well with your army. If your opponent doesn't have a lot of cav (which happens nowadays as anti-meta build), the iron troops are also insane.
Still, I highly doubt you can send 1000c first and get away with it in most MUs. Maybe against Port, Dutch etc but I don't see that working against the semi ff civs.

you can do it for mercs, although tbh usually I would just go IV. you can get away with it vs quite a lot of civs, but ye, not usually vs fre or germany, if those are the ones you mean.

On the EP? Against what civ?
mirror : can work with surprise but shouldn't
Japan : doesn't work, you get outscaled
India : With the old han nerf you get outscaled too as you can't deal with sepoy/urumi, also age 3 timings are scary.
Aztecs : lol
Iro : No way you reach the 4th age alive
Sioux : Same
Otto : xD
Spain : ...
Dutch : It can work, but with the old han nerf I'm sure you industrial age gives you much
France : No
Germany : No
Brit : No
Russia : Nope
Port : It can work, but again, since you don't have old han, do you really want to reach industrial?

All in, there are only 3 MUs where it's viable, it's a bit risky and it doesn't give you much.

[Garja]

China (semi) FI is probably the most viable at the moment. Aside from old han China has plenty of strong unit shipments. I think more than any other civ. Also I think they get the most amount of consulate unit which then upgrade to industrial stats.
Anyway in the current meta China can get away with 1k wood 1k gold vs several civs.

[deleted_user0]

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Yea, Mitoe's point is very relevant.
Still, I think that this shipment is slightly overrated. When I played a lot with China (2 years ago or so), I used to send it first every game because that's what people usually do but I don't think that it's good. In fact, in the current meta 10 skirm is often a better choice, and I'm starting to prefer 11 changdaos because it allows you to delay the consulate and you're often short on wood as China.

Wut...??? Youre not short on wood wafuq? Also 10%hp is just super good. I would never delay consulate. In fact i would even prefer consulate over rax and getting market ups before making units if i can get away with it.

Shipping intervention first is something you only do vs a musk huss rush or otherwise heavy cav presence. Which is basically what people used to do on re due to bad maps, so the tower ff isnt as good as it is on the plymouth maps of ep.

On maps with good hunts, or in mus with less pressure in age 2, you first send 1000c if youre smart, or otherwise 10 skir/5cav like sircallen said. 11 changdao is defo a good shipment and in certain mus id send it over 9 redcoats, purely for speed and snare purposes, otherwise manchu are also a good anticav. Redcoats are still a great card to send, i like them especially vs ger or spain, sioux and ofc china mirrors.

Intervention was also used succesfully by dyddyd in certain ff strats. And in rare cases its better for india than the 9 sepoy card cuz 1) doesnt cost pop and 2) it doesnt require veteran upgrade

Why 1000c ?

meyou said it, to send a merc shipment. 9 manchus is a great shipment against everything but skirm mass and since your cavalry is great it works well with your army. If your opponent doesn't have a lot of cav (which happens nowadays as anti-meta build), the iron troops are also insane.
Still, I highly doubt you can send 1000c first and get away with it in most MUs. Maybe against Port, Dutch etc but I don't see that working against the semi ff civs.

you can do it for mercs, although tbh usually I would just go IV. you can get away with it vs quite a lot of civs, but ye, not usually vs fre or germany, if those are the ones you mean.

On the EP? Against what civ?
mirror : can work with surprise but shouldn't
Japan : doesn't work, you get outscaled
India : With the old han nerf you get outscaled too as you can't deal with sepoy/urumi, also age 3 timings are scary.
Aztecs : lol
Iro : No way you reach the 4th age alive
Sioux : Same
Otto : xD
Spain : ...
Dutch : It can work, but with the old han nerf I'm sure you industrial age gives you much
France : No
Germany : No
Brit : No
Russia : Nope
Port : It can work, but again, since you don't have old han, do you really want to reach industrial?

All in, there are only 3 MUs where it's viable, it's a bit risky and it doesn't give you much.

mirror : should work quite often, i've done it a lot, vs lukas, hazza, mitoe etc.
Japan : you can get away with it, dont know if it works, i havent played this mu in a while.
India : I wouldn't do it vs india, usually they dont ff vs you either, but if they do, then you can definitely get away with it. it's in fact the best way to counter the H2O howdah bo vs india.
Aztecs : ye wouldnt do it vs aztec age2 of course.
Iro : depends on what iro does. if they age2, then no, if age3, then you can.
Sioux : you can definitely get away with it vs most sioux, I dont know if you'd want to.
Otto :
Spain :
Dutch : It totally works vs dutch, and old han is overrated. you dont need it to win.
France : depends on what they do, vs huss semi's you can get away with it, I've done it quite a few times.
Germany :
Brit : yes, you can, especially if they do your beloved VC FF.
Russia :
Port : haven't you watched lukass vs conquerer? again, who cares against old han.

it's a strat that I would use mostly vs dutch and ports, sometimes vs other civs, but I would basically do it any time I can get away with it. not saying this is always or often or even like a standard strat. you need to read the game and see if you can. but if you can, its worth it almost 100% of the time.

[[Armag] diarouga]

You can and sometimes it is viable, I have no issue with that, but I disagree with your statement : " usually I would just go IV. you can get away with it vs quite a lot of civs".
Realistically, you can't get away with it vs a lot of civs, and most of the time (especially below pr35) you want to send the mercs.

[deleted_user0]

You can and sometimes it is viable, I have no issue with that, but I disagree with your statement : " usually I would just go IV. you can get away with it vs quite a lot of civs".
Realistically, you can't get away with it vs a lot of civs, and most of the time (especially below pr35) you want to send the mercs.

well i meant, whenever i send 1000c, i go IV with it. many civs is subjective, it's like 4-6 civs you can regularly get away with it. imo that's quite a lot. but because you keep talking about Old Han, I feel like maybe you haven't caught up with new china meta, so maybe you havent seen it in action.

[Hazza54321]

when have we ever played a china mirror

[EAGLEMUT]

Think of the last time you played a china mirror; can you say with absolute certainty that your opponent wasn't umeu?


Thought so.