MU of the month: Dutch vs Russia

[j_t_kirk]

Back to the great AOE3 strategies. We saw in the past some nice MU of the week already. One month A few months ago we had Spain playing vs China
You can find all played MU's here.
The meta changes, the player skill level changes, and the patch changes. Some high-level 1v1 players from our lovely community want to show up in a BO5. Let's find out what they could do.

Every at least once per month a thread will be opened where you can discuss a certain MU. This week's MU is Dutch vs Russia. Hopefully, the discussion will be in depth and top players will share their insight.

Vote for the next MU here!


What is the current meta?
What strategy fits best for each map?


VS The map pool:
Kamchatka --- Indonesia --- Herald Island --- Thar Desert--- Florida


You can find a list of ESOC maps here: http://eso-community.net/maps.php

Welcome! Credit for this idea goes to @kami_ryu as well as @musketeer925 , @BrookG ,@lemmings121 & @Diarouga building upon it. They are the masterminds behind this pretty nice idea!

All played MU's you can find here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=13821

[tedere12]

Close MU, depends on the map a lot

[Kaiserklein]

Dutch favoured on no tp, russ favoured on big tp maps, otherwise pretty fair I think. There's quite a few ways to play it as russia (rush, colo timing, even semi ff I think) and dutch has to adapt

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea, close MU.
I'm not sure how you should play it as Dutch. Probably start cav and hold and then adapt. Russia should be agressive early on, and then boom (of course it's easier with the TP line).

[Hazza54321]

yeah fair mostly except high tp

[bwinner]

Yea, close MU.
I'm not sure how you should play it as Dutch. Probably start cav and hold and then adapt. Russia should be agressive early on, and then boom (of course it's easier with the TP line).

How exactly do you boom when there is no TP ? Cuz you do market up early anyway right ?

[tedere12]

Yea, close MU.
I'm not sure how you should play it as Dutch. Probably start cav and hold and then adapt. Russia should be agressive early on, and then boom (of course it's easier with the TP line).

How exactly do you boom when there is no TP ? Cuz you do market up early anyway right ?

you do it the goodspeed way

[Kaiserklein]

Well imo that's why the mu sucks for russia on no tp. You don't have a way to boom so dutch can turtle, even with cm if they need, get to fortress with much more eco, and russia will struggle to hold the push

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea, close MU.
I'm not sure how you should play it as Dutch. Probably start cav and hold and then adapt. Russia should be agressive early on, and then boom (of course it's easier with the TP line).

How exactly do you boom when there is no TP ? Cuz you do market up early anyway right ?

Yea market, maybe spice trade at some point. I think that if you can keep the Dutch player in age 2 it should be fine because your units are so much better, if he goes age 3 that's another story.
To be fair, it's probably slightly Dutch favoured but not that hard.

I remember there was a showmatch between kaiser and somppu on a no TP map and this was quite close although somppu lost.

[Kaiserklein]

Yeah but that's because my dutch is bad and was even worse back then

[supernapoleon]

Still in age 3, it is hard for the dutch player to get map controll back. Russia sits on blockhouses with mass infintrary. Hard to destroy without 2 canon shippment.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Still in age 3, it is hard for the dutch player to get map controll back. Russia sits on blockhouses with mass infintrary. Hard to destroy without 2 canon shippment.

Yea. Well you have the range advantage so you can hit and run him, else making canons is an option (ruyter/falc).

[deleted_user]

Still in age 3, it is hard for the dutch player to get map controll back. Russia sits on blockhouses with mass infintrary. Hard to destroy without 2 canon shippment.

Vet huss

[dansil92]

Water map will be particularly interesting for this matchup imo. Both have decent water options

[richard]

As russian player i would play early aggression vs Dutch on each of these 5 maps. I would expect the Dutch player to send CM then and build more banks hiding behind CM, then aging up to age III.

[deleted_user]

As russian player i would play early aggression vs Dutch on each of these 5 maps. I would expect the Dutch player to send CM then and build more banks hiding behind CM, then aging up to age III.

Incredible.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Water map will be particularly interesting for this matchup imo. Both have decent water options

Not really.
Dutch is a trash water civ (bank boom is usually better), and although Russia has a decent water boom it isn't good against Dutch because Dutch is quite good against water booms.
You can just ff and kill him with the fregate/3 ships and ruyt/falc.

[deleted_user]

Water map will be particularly interesting for this matchup imo. Both have decent water options

Not really.
Dutch is a trash water civ (bank boom is usually better), and although Russia has a decent water boom it isn't good against Dutch because Dutch is quite good against water booms.
You can just ff and kill him with the fregate/3 ships and ruyt/falc.

yea, you really wouldnt like to open seaboom with any civ unless you are playing porto ( easy to defence with 2tc cm ) or japan thanks to yumiW

[[Armag] diarouga]

Russia can water boom sometimes (vs sioux/fre/ger/mirror).
Not vs dutch though.

[richard]

As russian player i would play early aggression vs Dutch on each of these 5 maps. I would expect the Dutch player to send CM then and build more banks hiding behind CM, then aging up to age III.

Incredible.

It s credible.

[Sargsyan]

Russians i monkey flip them with the funky cm ill be shipping

[bwinner]

Water map will be particularly interesting for this matchup imo. Both have decent water options

Not really.
Dutch is a trash water civ (bank boom is usually better), and although Russia has a decent water boom it isn't good against Dutch because Dutch is quite good against water booms.
You can just ff and kill him with the fregate/3 ships and ruyt/falc.

Wouldn't it be a way to boom more effectively than steal trap for russia ? I agree though that it can oppen a big window to age up for dutch and you don't want that

[Garja]

The water discussion is not that easy. If Russia booms hard on water and Dutch FF and ships frigate etc. I think that's not bad for Russia. Whenever one civ booms on water and the other does delayed water push that usually plays into the hands of the water boom civ. I'd rather just FF and push land as Dutch in that situation.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Water map will be particularly interesting for this matchup imo. Both have decent water options

Not really.
Dutch is a trash water civ (bank boom is usually better), and although Russia has a decent water boom it isn't good against Dutch because Dutch is quite good against water booms.
You can just ff and kill him with the fregate/3 ships and ruyt/falc.

Wouldn't it be a way to boom more effectively than steal trap for russia ? I agree though that it can oppen a big window to age up for dutch and you don't want that

Yes your eco will be great but dutch will age for free (while it's tough against a 5coss pressure), and you're going to lose your extra eco to his age 3 push.

[bwinner]

Show hidden quotes

Water map will be particularly interesting for this matchup imo. Both have decent water options

Not really.
Dutch is a trash water civ (bank boom is usually better), and although Russia has a decent water boom it isn't good against Dutch because Dutch is quite good against water booms.
You can just ff and kill him with the fregate/3 ships and ruyt/falc.

Wouldn't it be a way to boom more effectively than steal trap for russia ? I agree though that it can oppen a big window to age up for dutch and you don't want that

Yes your eco will be great but dutch will age for free (while it's tough against a 5coss pressure), and you're going to lose your extra eco to his age 3 push.

I was more thinking about a normal start and then go water without schooners with juste 1 dock, using wood cartes.