How to play vs Sioux as France

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Australia Patrick20872
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How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by Patrick20872 »

Hi guys,

I really am out of ideas for this matchup. Assuming Sioux will do the usual semi-ff, I semi-ff myself with around 15 musks to protect my vills whilst I age. Now we are both age 3 I'll make goon batches of 5 non-stop and batches of 3-5 skirms in the background. I send unit shipments like 8 skirm/ 5 goon also. When it comes to the battle I always get rolled by Sioux's army. I'm not sure if I should be aggressive early fortress or on the defense, waiting for my opponent to push. I've been told I need more cuirs to block but I'm not sure how good cuirs are vs axe riders + bow riders :? . Also, where should my goons be when I'm kiting my skirm/goon? Do I try block the axe riders/dog soldiers with my goons in front of my skirms? Should my goons be behind my skirms letting them get ripped apart by the melee sioux cav. My micro is probably not the biggest problem though. Either way I just get rolled good micro or not.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

The goons should be behind your skirms.
You definitely don't want cuirs if he makes brs or RR, the musks in melee should do the job.

Since you have more eco you should get more stuff and win.
If you really can't deal with the semi FF you can try the cdb timing.
Std build with 700w/4v/700c/pionnier
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by Darwin_ »

I've seen 10/15 musk semi-ff going straight into cannons do quite well against sioux. Something like 4v/700c/2 falc (10 musks) or 4v/700w/700c/2 falc if you start TP (15 musks). You can either get vet musks right when you age or train 1/2/3 more batches of musks then switch to skirm/dragoon/cuir.

Alternatively (this works best on RE because sioux probably won't have teepee's in base), you can go for a musk/xbow timing with or without pioneers. You can do the same start as if you were going to musk semi, but then add in a second rax, get about 30 musk, then ship 8 xbow and push, maybe training more xbow to deal with bow/rifle riders or even shipping pioneers and going all-in.

Generally, though, just remember that dragoons counter rifle riders, rifle riders are incredibly efficient against musketeers, sioux has no good way to deal with a musketeer mass in age 2 besides a well-executed morning star build, and that if sioux ages you have to age yourself.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by bwinner »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:The goons should be behind your skirms.
You definitely don't want cuirs if he makes brs or RR, the musks in melee should do the job.

Since you have more eco you should get more stuff and win.
If you really can't deal with the semi FF you can try the cdb timing.
Std build with 700w/4v/700c/pionnier

I don't think this cdb timming can work on ep if the sioux player does a correct herding
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by Hazza54321 »

seems like a hard mu for france on ep
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bwinner1 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:The goons should be behind your skirms.
You definitely don't want cuirs if he makes brs or RR, the musks in melee should do the job.

Since you have more eco you should get more stuff and win.
If you really can't deal with the semi FF you can try the cdb timing.
Std build with 700w/4v/700c/pionnier

I don't think this cdb timming can work on ep if the sioux player does a correct herding

I don't know, on the RE it was really scary.
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by bwinner »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
bwinner1 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:The goons should be behind your skirms.
You definitely don't want cuirs if he makes brs or RR, the musks in melee should do the job.

Since you have more eco you should get more stuff and win.
If you really can't deal with the semi FF you can try the cdb timing.
Std build with 700w/4v/700c/pionnier

I don't think this cdb timming can work on ep if the sioux player does a correct herding

I don't know, on the RE it was really scary.

well yeah but ep map+teepees make it sound like shit
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by deleted_user0 »

Hazza54321 wrote:seems like a hard mu for france on ep


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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

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Post by Guigs »

Darwin_ wrote:I've seen 10/15 musk semi-ff going straight into cannons do quite well against sioux. Something like 4v/700c/2 falc (10 musks) or 4v/700w/700c/2 falc if you start TP (15 musks). You can either get vet musks right when you age or train 1/2/3 more batches of musks then switch to skirm/dragoon/cuir.

Alternatively (this works best on RE because sioux probably won't have teepee's in base), you can go for a musk/xbow timing with or without pioneers. You can do the same start as if you were going to musk semi, but then add in a second rax, get about 30 musk, then ship 8 xbow and push, maybe training more xbow to deal with bow/rifle riders or even shipping pioneers and going all-in.

Generally, though, just remember that dragoons counter rifle riders, rifle riders are incredibly efficient against musketeers, sioux has no good way to deal with a musketeer mass in age 2 besides a well-executed morning star build, and that if sioux ages you have to age yourself.


You can't musk falc vs sioux
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hazza54321 wrote:seems like a hard mu for france on ep

Nah.
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bwinner1 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I don't know, on the RE it was really scary.

well yeah but ep map+teepees make it sound like shit

EP maps don't change the done tbh. Teepees are nice but the brs nerf is also big, and the cetan buff not that big.
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by bwinner »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
bwinner1 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

well yeah but ep map+teepees make it sound like shit

EP maps don't change the done tbh. Teepees are nice but the brs nerf is also big, and the cetan buff not that big.

well it ensure that you can still have food under TC a the time of your timming, and cdb really suck under opponent's TC
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bwinner1 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

EP maps don't change the done tbh. Teepees are nice but the brs nerf is also big, and the cetan buff not that big.

well it ensure that you can still have food under TC a the time of your timming, and cdb really suck under opponent's TC

Well it's better if he has food under his TC because you can gather it with your cdb.
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by deleted_user0 »

cdb pioneer all in push unholdable, even on re sioux couldnt hold it XD
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by charlemango »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
bwinner1 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

well it ensure that you can still have food under TC a the time of your timming, and cdb really suck under opponent's TC

Well it's better if he has food under his TC because you can gather it with your cdb.


I need to see a rec of this to believe it...
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by Mitoe »

charlemango wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Well it's better if he has food under his TC because you can gather it with your cdb.


I need to see a rec of this to believe it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft6Y17wQwec
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by charlemango »

Mitoe wrote:
charlemango wrote:
Show hidden quotes


I need to see a rec of this to believe it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft6Y17wQwec


Hahaha @Mitoe that was amazing
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by deleted_user0 »

i like this thread, keep it coming!
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by fei123456 »

10 musk semi into goon skirm mass
You'll need tons of unit shipments to hold the sioux fortress pressure. 5 goon 4 goon 8 skirm 7 skirm, and cavalry combat.
Keep about 20-30 skirm, and then put all your resource into dragoons.
On big maps you can also try 2 stable goons with arsenal techs (not sure).
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by deleted_user0 »

fei123456 wrote:10 musk semi into goon skirm mass
You'll need tons of unit shipments to hold the sioux fortress pressure. 5 goon 4 goon 8 skirm 7 skirm, and cavalry combat.
Keep about 20-30 skirm, and then put all your resource into dragoons.
On big maps you can also try 2 stable goons with arsenal techs (not sure).


2 cannons is also good to send. better than 7 skirs.
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by fei123456 »

umeu wrote:
fei123456 wrote:10 musk semi into goon skirm mass
You'll need tons of unit shipments to hold the sioux fortress pressure. 5 goon 4 goon 8 skirm 7 skirm, and cavalry combat.
Keep about 20-30 skirm, and then put all your resource into dragoons.
On big maps you can also try 2 stable goons with arsenal techs (not sure).


2 cannons is also good to send. better than 7 skirs.

Ye but in most cases sioux will mass cavalry instead of wakina (not in EP i guess?)
10 jaeger is actually good against sioux, but it's a bit hard to save 1000 gold.
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Re: How to play vs Sioux as France

Post by deleted_user0 »

fei123456 wrote:
umeu wrote:
fei123456 wrote:10 musk semi into goon skirm mass
You'll need tons of unit shipments to hold the sioux fortress pressure. 5 goon 4 goon 8 skirm 7 skirm, and cavalry combat.
Keep about 20-30 skirm, and then put all your resource into dragoons.
On big maps you can also try 2 stable goons with arsenal techs (not sure).


2 cannons is also good to send. better than 7 skirs.

Ye but in most cases sioux will mass cavalry instead of wakina (not in EP i guess?)
10 jaeger is actually good against sioux, but it's a bit hard to save 1000 gold.


swiss pike vs dog pop is good too!

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