Japan start

[Dsy]

Hi guys!

I always found japan start is outdated. Maybe im wrong (you can discuss) but i write down my reasons:

Current strat:
Get 200w from crates - build consulate
Chop 107w - build shrine

My strat:
Build shrine from 200w - assign it to wood
Chop the needed wood for consulate

So my point is: I think there is no much reason to risk vill pop cap with the old strat when the saved wood from the old strat is completely compensated by the shrine which starts to gather earlier.
What do you think?

[[Armag] diarouga]

You should never get housed if you macro properly. I haven't done the maths but saving 18w thanks to the consulate discount is probably better than having a shrine gathering ealier.

[Dsy]

Even if its better (i didnt calculate) its probably 10w.
However if you build shrine earlier, you will Never get housed. Plus you can focus on more exploring and treasure hunting since for this strat much less APM required.

[Dsy]

I made a mistake and calculated with 0.1 gather rate.
However since it has 0.42 when hunts are nerby. It means every 10 sec 4 wood. Since you can finish consulate for the best case for 60 sec it means with my strat you probably also overgather the old.

[Mitoe]

I agree with you! This is something I've done for a few years now (or at least, when I think of it--I often forget), except it's only good if you have enough starting hunt inside your base to also fill your wonder. If you place the shrine immediately--even on a 300w start--you will gather just enough or more to compensate for the fact that you didn't wait for the Portuguese Consulate (especially if you have livestock already, like on Tibet for example).

Another nice thing about doing this--as long as the starting hunt is large enough--is that the shrine will tether that hunt to that location, meaning you can place your wonder there as well without needing to worry about the animals wandering away and leaving you with a 0/8 wonder.

This also frees up your monks to be more active instead of needing to pause to find a hunt to construct your shrine.


Edit: MATH

0.35*60 = 21 wood (I lowered it from 0.42 to 0.35 to compensate for the fact that sometimes the animals don't gather from the shrine immediately)

It also occurs to me that 60 seconds isn't quite the right number, as it also takes a couple of seconds to actually ally with Port. Not to mention sometimes you might be in the middle of taking a treasure or something when you do finally ally, delaying your shrine even further. Oh, AND you will sometimes get your first shipment faster because normally your shrine will come up after you've sent your first card.

So yes, it is always better to build the shrine first as long as you have enough hunt close by to do so.

[UpMySleeves]

@Dsy So you still gather 200w for consulate before aging up or you do that in transition?

[Dsy]

@Dsy So you still gather 200w for consulate before aging up or you do that in transition?

You need to build consulate before aging up i think. You get lot of discount to ageing with Port ally.
Plus you need to start shrine or water boom instantly when aging. If you delay those its a significant loss in eco.

[tedere12]

I always do that. I skip consulate tho because I want a forward consulate

[[Armag] diarouga]

Interesting. Buakaw used to do that.

[gibson]

I think its a wash either way. Yea you get the shrine xp sooner, but you get the cons xp later. You also start scouting late cause you're building a shrine at 0:01

[Hazza54321]

I think its too irrelevant to matter tbh

[Garja]

I believe you miss some opportunity if you find a wood treasure when you're done gathering wood but cons is not built yet.

[SoldieR]

You would actually have more opportunity to take full advantage of wood tres because you're now gathering more wood for cons compared to 107w house. Your vils can be gathering longer but stop when you find a tres, whereas with building cons first, you are more likely to potentially over gather.

[Garja]

That's actually the same. The difference is that your cons will be up later so if you get enough wood treasure for another shrine you have to wait till cons is up or you lose wood again.

[Amsel_]

That's a cool idea; I'll have to try it out. There are so many times I've done the current strat and got rekt because I got distracted. Japan is a fun civ, but I never enjoyed their age 1.