am i just getting out-microed here

[Squamiger]

This is the 2nd of two games and I won't even post the 1st because it literally went down exactly the same way. He FFs, I FF 700w Mitoe-style meaning I'm slower, he masses, I mass, he crushes me. Dopps are really really hard to focus fire with skirms when they're in a big German mass.

He also sends the German church card, for speedy dopps? His deck is called "vs. China" so I know he has a plan.

Anyway, how do I counter this. My FF is just too slow maybe, and I should do the 700c one instead? Or semi-ff? Or push age 2?

[Challenger_Marco]

Ez just age make army ,make cannons push gg.

[Squamiger]

Ez just age make army ,make cannons push gg.

why didnt i think of that

[Challenger_Marco]

Man you can even FI as china Vs him so ez.

[Mitoe]

Looked more like a positioning issue in the rec you posted than anything else. Your army was split into 3 groups without any way of supporting one another with the wonder cutting off your anti-cav from your skirms and your mine/village cutting off your cavalry. When army sizes get that large it's more important to concede ground and sometimes even buildings or villagers to get a better position with your army.

Other than that, I didn't watch super closely but from what I did see I have a couple of comments:

I don't really think 4 Iron Flails is a great shipment, particularly against Germany. I would avoid sending this early on if I were you. It's better a late Fortress shipment to remass cavalry really quickly as its value is quite a bit lower than the 5 Meteor Hammers or any of the other major unit shipments China has access to.

You also got your market upgrades quite late. I think if you can confirm that your opponent is also going Fortress you can afford to get most if not all of them in transition to Fortress/early Fortress. This will help your mass a lot later on.


Other than that you did fine. Just need to reposition and macro a bit better and I think you have a good shot. Also, you could consider going pure infantry (possibly with Manchu) vs this style of Germans and getting Territorial Army Combat in once you have a decent mass. I think he would struggle to beat that doing what he just did.

[Kaiserklein]

Ez just age make army ,make cannons push gg.

Make cannons as china?

[Challenger_Marco]

Ez just age make army ,make cannons push gg.

Make cannons as china?

No I just posted this generally not for china like other civs like fre probably euro civs.My mistake I didn't see he was mentioning china Vs ger mu I just posted instantly seeing greatscythe11 u do that... :p

[Frost Bite]

@Challenger_Marco But your second post seem to contradict your reason

[Kaiserklein]

Ez just age make army ,make cannons push gg.

Make cannons as china?

No I just posted this generally not for china like other civs like fre probably euro civs.My mistake I didn't see he was mentioning china Vs ger mu I just posted instantly seeing greatscythe11 u do that... :p

Why would you train falcs vs germany though? Especially since I believe that guy likes to make lots of dops?

[Frost Bite]

I still remember taking down his vills with my mm during the transition, he is a cute noob.

[Challenger_Marco]

@Challenger_Marco But your second post seem to contradict your reason

Just realised after that.

[Challenger_Marco]

Show hidden quotes

Ez just age make army ,make cannons push gg.

Make cannons as china?

No I just posted this generally not for china like other civs like fre probably euro civs.My mistake I didn't see he was mentioning china Vs ger mu I just posted instantly seeing greatscythe11 u do that... :p

Why would you train falcs vs germany though? Especially since I believe that guy likes to make lots of dops?

I played as fre Vs his ger and won ,he goes for a non eco timing push everytime ,and it's so predictable he's does only 1 BO just naked FF with a tp ,he sends 1k wood and makes cannons himself ,so I made cannons my self n outmassed him with great eco lead even though he had dopps ,kaiser Ur point is a good one but he doesn't do any STD stuff ,he does his own builds n variations Vs each civs which are not that much great ,most of the time he looses vills like if he was building a stable n oppo denies it he would still build still build till it's up....so...

[Challenger_Marco]

Like piroshiki .....like greatscythe11

[Squamiger]

Looked more like a positioning issue in the rec you posted than anything else. Your army was split into 3 groups without any way of supporting one another with the wonder cutting off your anti-cav from your skirms and your mine/village cutting off your cavalry. When army sizes get that large it's more important to concede ground and sometimes even buildings or villagers to get a better position with your army.

Other than that, I didn't watch super closely but from what I did see I have a couple of comments:

I don't really think 4 Iron Flails is a great shipment, particularly against Germany. I would avoid sending this early on if I were you. It's better a late Fortress shipment to remass cavalry really quickly as its value is quite a bit lower than the 5 Meteor Hammers or any of the other major unit shipments China has access to.

You also got your market upgrades quite late. I think if you can confirm that your opponent is also going Fortress you can afford to get most if not all of them in transition to Fortress/early Fortress. This will help your mass a lot later on.


Other than that you did fine. Just need to reposition and macro a bit better and I think you have a good shot. Also, you could consider going pure infantry (possibly with Manchu) vs this style of Germans and getting Territorial Army Combat in once you have a decent mass. I think he would struggle to beat that doing what he just did.

thanks for the response. positioning isnt something i think about a lot at pr23 so this is good to consider. if I am going pure inf against this, what card order would you suggest? 10 skirm, 11 changdao, 1k wood, then manchus?

[Mitoe]

If you're going to send 1000w it should probably be your 1st card in Fortress. I don't think it's the safest card to send most of the time though. Just send Intervention or Territorial Combat after 10 arqs and 11 changdao IMO

[Superfly47]

When you hit age 2, you had 21 vils, sent 9 pikes and got popped at 30 so you missed out on a couple vils of production. Instead you put a bunch of vils in que, then send military shipment. You’ll have continuous vil production.

Part of your army got stuck behind the summer palace for a while.

[Squamiger]

i did cancel the 9 pikes but yea good point

[jgals]

I still remember taking down his vills with my mm during the transition, he is a cute noob.

aren't you a private

[jgals]

Show hidden quotes

Ez just age make army ,make cannons push gg.

Make cannons as china?

No I just posted this generally not for china like other civs like fre probably euro civs.My mistake I didn't see he was mentioning china Vs ger mu I just posted instantly seeing greatscythe11 u do that... :p

Why would you train falcs vs germany though? Especially since I believe that guy likes to make lots of dops?

I played as fre Vs his ger and won ,he goes for a non eco timing push everytime ,and it's so predictable he's does only 1 BO just naked FF with a tp ,he sends 1k wood and makes cannons himself ,so I made cannons my self n outmassed him with great eco lead even though he had dopps ,kaiser Ur point is a good one but he doesn't do any STD stuff ,he does his own builds n variations Vs each civs which are not that much great ,most of the time he looses vills like if he was building a stable n oppo denies it he would still build still build till it's up....so...

Thanks for the info. I am afraid to 1v him because I am scared of Germans a lot of the time as IRO but with this info I feel comfortable bashing him

[iLolicon]

Didn't watch the rec but greatscythe always seems to play with the same couple of BOs anyway. Standard 700c ff does work, and you can use wall to avoid getting caught by the dopps, and send mortar if he makes cannons. Also since he always plays on great plains you should always rush to take the middle tp before he can, and ship 300w first instead of cutting.

[Sargsyan]

Show hidden quotes

Ez just age make army ,make cannons push gg.

Make cannons as china?

No I just posted this generally not for china like other civs like fre probably euro civs.My mistake I didn't see he was mentioning china Vs ger mu I just posted instantly seeing greatscythe11 u do that... :p

Why would you train falcs vs germany though? Especially since I believe that guy likes to make lots of dops?

I played as fre Vs his ger and won ,he goes for a non eco timing push everytime ,and it's so predictable he's does only 1 BO just naked FF with a tp ,he sends 1k wood and makes cannons himself ,so I made cannons my self n outmassed him with great eco lead even though he had dopps ,kaiser Ur point is a good one but he doesn't do any STD stuff ,he does his own builds n variations Vs each civs which are not that much great ,most of the time he looses vills like if he was building a stable n oppo denies it he would still build still build till it's up....so...

Thanks for the info. I am afraid to 1v him because I am scared of Germans a lot of the time as IRO but with this info I feel comfortable bashing him

He doesn't play against iro, let alone against your iro

[p0cA]

Best thing with him is that he never raids with uhlans just scout. Like you can have a lone herding vill getting surrounded by two uhlan but hes really commited not to raid xD

[Shikari]

Pls also tell me the single built he does. I dont want to loose to him when i get the chance to play vs him.

[Sargsyan]

Hurt him in colonial a bit then go fortress and win

[agrondergermane]

guys... u can pretty much do any standard stuff against him. im not a pro, but i never managed to lose against him. he isnt even looking like a legit pr 25 to me.