French vs China MU

User avatar
Great Britain TheNameDaniel
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 726
Joined: Sep 13, 2016
ESO: danielek
Location: UK

French vs China MU

Post by TheNameDaniel »

So I play on the accounts, Danielek and NERONEK which are both around pr 28-29, I've just recently gotten into 1v1's like last month after playing casual team for a while on and off and managed to get my account from pr 25 to 29 within 1-2 weeks just by playing 1v1 and higher level team games.

I've been getting stuck on this MU French vs China, I mainly play France and Germany for 1v1, trying to mix in a bit of india but im not the greatest with that civ. My micro is pretty good I would say but whatever I do against China as France I always seem to lose, I try pushing early with raks and musks and then adding a stable after 700w arrives but china just sends 8 bows and mm and they wipe my musks and age up by the time I can remass. I've tried the huss semi-ff into 8 skirm, training 2 more skirms and training 5 goons and trying to go for a push but china just pulls units out of nowhere and destroys my army. If I wait to mass up I get crushed by him shipping 50 million shipments, manchu and iron troops with his 150 pop deathball, whereas i have around 50 skirms 25 goons and 15 cuirs which get ripped apart.

I think I need to work on some better built orders, or maybe better positioning. I'll try to record my next game vs China. But anyone got any tips on the standard thing to do vs China as France?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: French vs China MU

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

There are many ways to play this match up, but I'd say that the easiest ways are either some colonial timings like I did vs garja here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856aUP3ym10&t=6571s
Of course this is an old game and today you'd want to add a TP. It probably wouldn't work at the top level today but still, that's a scary timing.

Else you have to start huss and try to damage him a lot with 8-10 huss and then be agressive in fortress with skirm/goon or skirm/cuir.
User avatar
Great Britain TheNameDaniel
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 726
Joined: Sep 13, 2016
ESO: danielek
Location: UK

Re: French vs China MU

Post by TheNameDaniel »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:There are many ways to play this match up, but I'd say that the easiest ways are either some colonial timings like I did vs garja here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856aUP3ym10&t=6571s
Of course this is an old game and today you'd want to add a TP. It probably wouldn't work at the top level today but still, that's a scary timing.

Else you have to start huss and try to damage him a lot with 8-10 huss and then be agressive in fortress with skirm/goon or skirm/cuir.

What would be the standard shipments sent vs china in age 3? the 8 skirm 5 goon and then falcs after you have around 30 skirms and 15-20 goons? or is that already too late?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: French vs China MU

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

TheNameDaniel wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:There are many ways to play this match up, but I'd say that the easiest ways are either some colonial timings like I did vs garja here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856aUP3ym10&t=6571s
Of course this is an old game and today you'd want to add a TP. It probably wouldn't work at the top level today but still, that's a scary timing.

Else you have to start huss and try to damage him a lot with 8-10 huss and then be agressive in fortress with skirm/goon or skirm/cuir.

What would be the standard shipments sent vs china in age 3? the 8 skirm 5 goon and then falcs after you have around 30 skirms and 15-20 goons? or is that already too late?

I'm not a big fan of 5 goons first, that's not really an agressive shipment.
You either have to be agressive with 2 falcs or 3 cuirs, or eco with like 1000c.
User avatar
Great Britain TheNameDaniel
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 726
Joined: Sep 13, 2016
ESO: danielek
Location: UK

Re: French vs China MU

Post by TheNameDaniel »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
TheNameDaniel wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:There are many ways to play this match up, but I'd say that the easiest ways are either some colonial timings like I did vs garja here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856aUP3ym10&t=6571s
Of course this is an old game and today you'd want to add a TP. It probably wouldn't work at the top level today but still, that's a scary timing.

Else you have to start huss and try to damage him a lot with 8-10 huss and then be agressive in fortress with skirm/goon or skirm/cuir.

What would be the standard shipments sent vs china in age 3? the 8 skirm 5 goon and then falcs after you have around 30 skirms and 15-20 goons? or is that already too late?

I'm not a big fan of 5 goons first, that's not really an agressive shipment.
You either have to be agressive with 2 falcs or 3 cuirs, or eco with like 1000c.

by sending the 2 falcs first, I would need to be training a lot of musks in transition to protect them right?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: French vs China MU

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

TheNameDaniel wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I'm not a big fan of 5 goons first, that's not really an agressive shipment.
You either have to be agressive with 2 falcs or 3 cuirs, or eco with like 1000c.

by sending the 2 falcs first, I would need to be training a lot of musks in transition to protect them right?

If you go for some all in timings you will use the cuirs to protect them.
User avatar
Great Britain TheNameDaniel
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 726
Joined: Sep 13, 2016
ESO: danielek
Location: UK

Re: French vs China MU

Post by TheNameDaniel »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
TheNameDaniel wrote:
Show hidden quotes

by sending the 2 falcs first, I would need to be training a lot of musks in transition to protect them right?

If you go for some all in timings you will use the cuirs to protect them.

Ok, thanks for helping me out ill try it next time I play vs China :)
User avatar
Portugal Kazamkikaz
Dragoon
Posts: 306
Joined: Dec 27, 2017
ESO: Kazamkikaz
Location: Braga

Re: French vs China MU

Post by Kazamkikaz »

I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.
My Youtube channel

"If you can't win the fight
don't take the fight"-Aizamk 2016
User avatar
Canada dansil92
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2231
Joined: Nov 3, 2018
ESO: dansil92

Re: French vs China MU

Post by dansil92 »

Kazamkikaz wrote:I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.


Grenade rushing in general is a strong counter to the china ff, since a gren with a single upgrade card actually beats a steppe in melee, and ckn have to be so careful they dont get close to grens. 90 hp doesnt last long vs a gren mass. Generally you'll want to house them quick, and ship or train some huss to counter any ckn duck squad or as pseudo antisteppe.

As france i could see the church ff being ok but possibly too slow, the last thing you want is 10 arq and 5 meteors on top of that grenadier swarm you can't replace
Image
User avatar
Portugal Kazamkikaz
Dragoon
Posts: 306
Joined: Dec 27, 2017
ESO: Kazamkikaz
Location: Braga

Re: French vs China MU

Post by Kazamkikaz »

dansil92 wrote:
Kazamkikaz wrote:I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.


Grenade rushing in general is a strong counter to the china ff, since a gren with a single upgrade card actually beats a steppe in melee, and ckn have to be so careful they dont get close to grens. 90 hp doesnt last long vs a gren mass. Generally you'll want to house them quick, and ship or train some huss to counter any ckn duck squad or as pseudo antisteppe.

As france i could see the church ff being ok but possibly too slow, the last thing you want is 10 arq and 5 meteors on top of that grenadier swarm you can't replace

China FF is slower than this france FF and you can get on time with a tower fb to kill his villages fast and avoid shipments so fast
My Youtube channel

"If you can't win the fight
don't take the fight"-Aizamk 2016
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: French vs China MU

Post by fei123456 »

On no TP maps do colonial musk huss timing.

On TP maps go TP semiff. You'll likely go goon skirm first to kite his units. First 2 shipments should be 8 skirm 5 goon, so that you can have a goon-skirm combo asap.
I don't suggest sending 2 cannon or 3 cuir first. China cavalry assemble much faster than cuirassier so you can hardly protect your cannon.
If you managed to take 3-4 TPs and upgrade them, you can do a 2 stable cuirass spam. send 8 skirm to snipe his redcoats, and mass 20+ cuirass to destroy your enemy.

The idea is, if you wanna go cuirass first, spam from 2 stables. Otherwise, go skirm-goon.
Sweden Hawk_Girl
Dragoon
Donator 01
Posts: 419
Joined: Dec 15, 2015

Re: French vs China MU

Post by Hawk_Girl »

TheNameDaniel wrote:So I play on the accounts, Danielek and NERONEK which are both around pr 28-29, I've just recently gotten into 1v1's like last month after playing casual team for a while on and off and managed to get my account from pr 25 to 29 within 1-2 weeks just by playing 1v1 and higher level team games.

I've been getting stuck on this MU French vs China, I mainly play France and Germany for 1v1, trying to mix in a bit of india but im not the greatest with that civ. My micro is pretty good I would say but whatever I do against China as France I always seem to lose, I try pushing early with raks and musks and then adding a stable after 700w arrives but china just sends 8 bows and mm and they wipe my musks and age up by the time I can remass. I've tried the huss semi-ff into 8 skirm, training 2 more skirms and training 5 goons and trying to go for a push but china just pulls units out of nowhere and destroys my army. If I wait to mass up I get crushed by him shipping 50 million shipments, manchu and iron troops with his 150 pop deathball, whereas i have around 50 skirms 25 goons and 15 cuirs which get ripped apart.

I think I need to work on some better built orders, or maybe better positioning. I'll try to record my next game vs China. But anyone got any tips on the standard thing to do vs China as France?


Just hope you get Hudson bay then easy win from there
Image
User avatar
Great Britain TheNameDaniel
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 726
Joined: Sep 13, 2016
ESO: danielek
Location: UK

Re: French vs China MU

Post by TheNameDaniel »

Hawk_Girl wrote:
TheNameDaniel wrote:So I play on the accounts, Danielek and NERONEK which are both around pr 28-29, I've just recently gotten into 1v1's like last month after playing casual team for a while on and off and managed to get my account from pr 25 to 29 within 1-2 weeks just by playing 1v1 and higher level team games.

I've been getting stuck on this MU French vs China, I mainly play France and Germany for 1v1, trying to mix in a bit of india but im not the greatest with that civ. My micro is pretty good I would say but whatever I do against China as France I always seem to lose, I try pushing early with raks and musks and then adding a stable after 700w arrives but china just sends 8 bows and mm and they wipe my musks and age up by the time I can remass. I've tried the huss semi-ff into 8 skirm, training 2 more skirms and training 5 goons and trying to go for a push but china just pulls units out of nowhere and destroys my army. If I wait to mass up I get crushed by him shipping 50 million shipments, manchu and iron troops with his 150 pop deathball, whereas i have around 50 skirms 25 goons and 15 cuirs which get ripped apart.

I think I need to work on some better built orders, or maybe better positioning. I'll try to record my next game vs China. But anyone got any tips on the standard thing to do vs China as France?


Just hope you get Hudson bay then easy win from there

Haha, yeah thats the main strategy.
No Flag bepsi
Musketeer
Posts: 92
Joined: Aug 26, 2015

Re: French vs China MU

Post by bepsi »

dansil92 wrote:
Kazamkikaz wrote:I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.


Grenade rushing in general is a strong counter to the china ff, since a gren with a single upgrade card actually beats a steppe in melee, and ckn have to be so careful they dont get close to grens. 90 hp doesnt last long vs a gren mass. Generally you'll want to house them quick, and ship or train some huss to counter any ckn duck squad or as pseudo antisteppe.

As france i could see the church ff being ok but possibly too slow, the last thing you want is 10 arq and 5 meteors on top of that grenadier swarm you can't replace


What is the recommended card order for the grenadier FF?
User avatar
Portugal Kazamkikaz
Dragoon
Posts: 306
Joined: Dec 27, 2017
ESO: Kazamkikaz
Location: Braga

Re: French vs China MU

Post by Kazamkikaz »

bepsi wrote:
dansil92 wrote:
Kazamkikaz wrote:I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.


Grenade rushing in general is a strong counter to the china ff, since a gren with a single upgrade card actually beats a steppe in melee, and ckn have to be so careful they dont get close to grens. 90 hp doesnt last long vs a gren mass. Generally you'll want to house them quick, and ship or train some huss to counter any ckn duck squad or as pseudo antisteppe.

As france i could see the church ff being ok but possibly too slow, the last thing you want is 10 arq and 5 meteors on top of that grenadier swarm you can't replace


What is the recommended card order for the grenadier FF?

3 cdb, 700c, "church card", 5 goons etc this is for fast way
My Youtube channel

"If you can't win the fight
don't take the fight"-Aizamk 2016

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV