French vs China MU
- TheNameDaniel
- Advanced Player
- Posts: 726
- Joined: Sep 13, 2016
- ESO: danielek
- Location: UK
French vs China MU
So I play on the accounts, Danielek and NERONEK which are both around pr 28-29, I've just recently gotten into 1v1's like last month after playing casual team for a while on and off and managed to get my account from pr 25 to 29 within 1-2 weeks just by playing 1v1 and higher level team games.
I've been getting stuck on this MU French vs China, I mainly play France and Germany for 1v1, trying to mix in a bit of india but im not the greatest with that civ. My micro is pretty good I would say but whatever I do against China as France I always seem to lose, I try pushing early with raks and musks and then adding a stable after 700w arrives but china just sends 8 bows and mm and they wipe my musks and age up by the time I can remass. I've tried the huss semi-ff into 8 skirm, training 2 more skirms and training 5 goons and trying to go for a push but china just pulls units out of nowhere and destroys my army. If I wait to mass up I get crushed by him shipping 50 million shipments, manchu and iron troops with his 150 pop deathball, whereas i have around 50 skirms 25 goons and 15 cuirs which get ripped apart.
I think I need to work on some better built orders, or maybe better positioning. I'll try to record my next game vs China. But anyone got any tips on the standard thing to do vs China as France?
I've been getting stuck on this MU French vs China, I mainly play France and Germany for 1v1, trying to mix in a bit of india but im not the greatest with that civ. My micro is pretty good I would say but whatever I do against China as France I always seem to lose, I try pushing early with raks and musks and then adding a stable after 700w arrives but china just sends 8 bows and mm and they wipe my musks and age up by the time I can remass. I've tried the huss semi-ff into 8 skirm, training 2 more skirms and training 5 goons and trying to go for a push but china just pulls units out of nowhere and destroys my army. If I wait to mass up I get crushed by him shipping 50 million shipments, manchu and iron troops with his 150 pop deathball, whereas i have around 50 skirms 25 goons and 15 cuirs which get ripped apart.
I think I need to work on some better built orders, or maybe better positioning. I'll try to record my next game vs China. But anyone got any tips on the standard thing to do vs China as France?
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
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- Location: France
Re: French vs China MU
There are many ways to play this match up, but I'd say that the easiest ways are either some colonial timings like I did vs garja here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856aUP3ym10&t=6571s
Of course this is an old game and today you'd want to add a TP. It probably wouldn't work at the top level today but still, that's a scary timing.
Else you have to start huss and try to damage him a lot with 8-10 huss and then be agressive in fortress with skirm/goon or skirm/cuir.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856aUP3ym10&t=6571s
Of course this is an old game and today you'd want to add a TP. It probably wouldn't work at the top level today but still, that's a scary timing.
Else you have to start huss and try to damage him a lot with 8-10 huss and then be agressive in fortress with skirm/goon or skirm/cuir.
- TheNameDaniel
- Advanced Player
- Posts: 726
- Joined: Sep 13, 2016
- ESO: danielek
- Location: UK
Re: French vs China MU
[Armag] diarouga wrote:There are many ways to play this match up, but I'd say that the easiest ways are either some colonial timings like I did vs garja here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856aUP3ym10&t=6571s
Of course this is an old game and today you'd want to add a TP. It probably wouldn't work at the top level today but still, that's a scary timing.
Else you have to start huss and try to damage him a lot with 8-10 huss and then be agressive in fortress with skirm/goon or skirm/cuir.
What would be the standard shipments sent vs china in age 3? the 8 skirm 5 goon and then falcs after you have around 30 skirms and 15-20 goons? or is that already too late?
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
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- Location: France
Re: French vs China MU
TheNameDaniel wrote:[Armag] diarouga wrote:There are many ways to play this match up, but I'd say that the easiest ways are either some colonial timings like I did vs garja here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856aUP3ym10&t=6571s
Of course this is an old game and today you'd want to add a TP. It probably wouldn't work at the top level today but still, that's a scary timing.
Else you have to start huss and try to damage him a lot with 8-10 huss and then be agressive in fortress with skirm/goon or skirm/cuir.
What would be the standard shipments sent vs china in age 3? the 8 skirm 5 goon and then falcs after you have around 30 skirms and 15-20 goons? or is that already too late?
I'm not a big fan of 5 goons first, that's not really an agressive shipment.
You either have to be agressive with 2 falcs or 3 cuirs, or eco with like 1000c.
- TheNameDaniel
- Advanced Player
- Posts: 726
- Joined: Sep 13, 2016
- ESO: danielek
- Location: UK
Re: French vs China MU
[Armag] diarouga wrote:TheNameDaniel wrote:[Armag] diarouga wrote:There are many ways to play this match up, but I'd say that the easiest ways are either some colonial timings like I did vs garja here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856aUP3ym10&t=6571s
Of course this is an old game and today you'd want to add a TP. It probably wouldn't work at the top level today but still, that's a scary timing.
Else you have to start huss and try to damage him a lot with 8-10 huss and then be agressive in fortress with skirm/goon or skirm/cuir.
What would be the standard shipments sent vs china in age 3? the 8 skirm 5 goon and then falcs after you have around 30 skirms and 15-20 goons? or is that already too late?
I'm not a big fan of 5 goons first, that's not really an agressive shipment.
You either have to be agressive with 2 falcs or 3 cuirs, or eco with like 1000c.
by sending the 2 falcs first, I would need to be training a lot of musks in transition to protect them right?
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
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- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
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- Location: France
Re: French vs China MU
TheNameDaniel wrote:[Armag] diarouga wrote:Show hidden quotes
I'm not a big fan of 5 goons first, that's not really an agressive shipment.
You either have to be agressive with 2 falcs or 3 cuirs, or eco with like 1000c.
by sending the 2 falcs first, I would need to be training a lot of musks in transition to protect them right?
If you go for some all in timings you will use the cuirs to protect them.
- TheNameDaniel
- Advanced Player
- Posts: 726
- Joined: Sep 13, 2016
- ESO: danielek
- Location: UK
Re: French vs China MU
[Armag] diarouga wrote:TheNameDaniel wrote:Show hidden quotes
by sending the 2 falcs first, I would need to be training a lot of musks in transition to protect them right?
If you go for some all in timings you will use the cuirs to protect them.
Ok, thanks for helping me out ill try it next time I play vs China :)
- Kazamkikaz
- Dragoon
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- Location: Braga
Re: French vs China MU
I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.
Re: French vs China MU
Kazamkikaz wrote:I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.
Grenade rushing in general is a strong counter to the china ff, since a gren with a single upgrade card actually beats a steppe in melee, and ckn have to be so careful they dont get close to grens. 90 hp doesnt last long vs a gren mass. Generally you'll want to house them quick, and ship or train some huss to counter any ckn duck squad or as pseudo antisteppe.
As france i could see the church ff being ok but possibly too slow, the last thing you want is 10 arq and 5 meteors on top of that grenadier swarm you can't replace
- Kazamkikaz
- Dragoon
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- Location: Braga
Re: French vs China MU
dansil92 wrote:Kazamkikaz wrote:I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.
Grenade rushing in general is a strong counter to the china ff, since a gren with a single upgrade card actually beats a steppe in melee, and ckn have to be so careful they dont get close to grens. 90 hp doesnt last long vs a gren mass. Generally you'll want to house them quick, and ship or train some huss to counter any ckn duck squad or as pseudo antisteppe.
As france i could see the church ff being ok but possibly too slow, the last thing you want is 10 arq and 5 meteors on top of that grenadier swarm you can't replace
China FF is slower than this france FF and you can get on time with a tower fb to kill his villages fast and avoid shipments so fast
Re: French vs China MU
On no TP maps do colonial musk huss timing.
On TP maps go TP semiff. You'll likely go goon skirm first to kite his units. First 2 shipments should be 8 skirm 5 goon, so that you can have a goon-skirm combo asap.
I don't suggest sending 2 cannon or 3 cuir first. China cavalry assemble much faster than cuirassier so you can hardly protect your cannon.
If you managed to take 3-4 TPs and upgrade them, you can do a 2 stable cuirass spam. send 8 skirm to snipe his redcoats, and mass 20+ cuirass to destroy your enemy.
The idea is, if you wanna go cuirass first, spam from 2 stables. Otherwise, go skirm-goon.
On TP maps go TP semiff. You'll likely go goon skirm first to kite his units. First 2 shipments should be 8 skirm 5 goon, so that you can have a goon-skirm combo asap.
I don't suggest sending 2 cannon or 3 cuir first. China cavalry assemble much faster than cuirassier so you can hardly protect your cannon.
If you managed to take 3-4 TPs and upgrade them, you can do a 2 stable cuirass spam. send 8 skirm to snipe his redcoats, and mass 20+ cuirass to destroy your enemy.
The idea is, if you wanna go cuirass first, spam from 2 stables. Otherwise, go skirm-goon.
Re: French vs China MU
TheNameDaniel wrote:So I play on the accounts, Danielek and NERONEK which are both around pr 28-29, I've just recently gotten into 1v1's like last month after playing casual team for a while on and off and managed to get my account from pr 25 to 29 within 1-2 weeks just by playing 1v1 and higher level team games.
I've been getting stuck on this MU French vs China, I mainly play France and Germany for 1v1, trying to mix in a bit of india but im not the greatest with that civ. My micro is pretty good I would say but whatever I do against China as France I always seem to lose, I try pushing early with raks and musks and then adding a stable after 700w arrives but china just sends 8 bows and mm and they wipe my musks and age up by the time I can remass. I've tried the huss semi-ff into 8 skirm, training 2 more skirms and training 5 goons and trying to go for a push but china just pulls units out of nowhere and destroys my army. If I wait to mass up I get crushed by him shipping 50 million shipments, manchu and iron troops with his 150 pop deathball, whereas i have around 50 skirms 25 goons and 15 cuirs which get ripped apart.
I think I need to work on some better built orders, or maybe better positioning. I'll try to record my next game vs China. But anyone got any tips on the standard thing to do vs China as France?
Just hope you get Hudson bay then easy win from there
- TheNameDaniel
- Advanced Player
- Posts: 726
- Joined: Sep 13, 2016
- ESO: danielek
- Location: UK
Re: French vs China MU
Hawk_Girl wrote:TheNameDaniel wrote:So I play on the accounts, Danielek and NERONEK which are both around pr 28-29, I've just recently gotten into 1v1's like last month after playing casual team for a while on and off and managed to get my account from pr 25 to 29 within 1-2 weeks just by playing 1v1 and higher level team games.
I've been getting stuck on this MU French vs China, I mainly play France and Germany for 1v1, trying to mix in a bit of india but im not the greatest with that civ. My micro is pretty good I would say but whatever I do against China as France I always seem to lose, I try pushing early with raks and musks and then adding a stable after 700w arrives but china just sends 8 bows and mm and they wipe my musks and age up by the time I can remass. I've tried the huss semi-ff into 8 skirm, training 2 more skirms and training 5 goons and trying to go for a push but china just pulls units out of nowhere and destroys my army. If I wait to mass up I get crushed by him shipping 50 million shipments, manchu and iron troops with his 150 pop deathball, whereas i have around 50 skirms 25 goons and 15 cuirs which get ripped apart.
I think I need to work on some better built orders, or maybe better positioning. I'll try to record my next game vs China. But anyone got any tips on the standard thing to do vs China as France?
Just hope you get Hudson bay then easy win from there
Haha, yeah thats the main strategy.
Re: French vs China MU
dansil92 wrote:Kazamkikaz wrote:I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.
Grenade rushing in general is a strong counter to the china ff, since a gren with a single upgrade card actually beats a steppe in melee, and ckn have to be so careful they dont get close to grens. 90 hp doesnt last long vs a gren mass. Generally you'll want to house them quick, and ship or train some huss to counter any ckn duck squad or as pseudo antisteppe.
As france i could see the church ff being ok but possibly too slow, the last thing you want is 10 arq and 5 meteors on top of that grenadier swarm you can't replace
What is the recommended card order for the grenadier FF?
- Kazamkikaz
- Dragoon
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Dec 27, 2017
- ESO: Kazamkikaz
- Location: Braga
Re: French vs China MU
bepsi wrote:dansil92 wrote:Kazamkikaz wrote:I was playing vs a better player than me and i was doing skirm/goon combo i was losing badly so he told me to do veteran musk + cuirassier and it was working fine but i could not mass enough of them so i end up losing but i think musk/cuirassier is better combo.
What works pretty well is grenadier church card FF vs china FF i think you need surprise factor, no china age2 army can deal with 12 guard grenadiers and 5 draggons+4 hussar.
Grenade rushing in general is a strong counter to the china ff, since a gren with a single upgrade card actually beats a steppe in melee, and ckn have to be so careful they dont get close to grens. 90 hp doesnt last long vs a gren mass. Generally you'll want to house them quick, and ship or train some huss to counter any ckn duck squad or as pseudo antisteppe.
As france i could see the church ff being ok but possibly too slow, the last thing you want is 10 arq and 5 meteors on top of that grenadier swarm you can't replace
What is the recommended card order for the grenadier FF?
3 cdb, 700c, "church card", 5 goons etc this is for fast way
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