India Shikari
Dragoon
Posts: 287
ESO: rahuru

31 May 2019, 08:43

Pls correct me if i am wrong

unit i mean
LI= skirms, crossbow etc.
HI= pike, halbs, doppels etc
Musk= sepoy, ashigaru, janisary, etc
HC= heavy cav or hand cav - cuirs, huss, meteor hammer, etc
RC= ranged cav- goons

Now talking about compositions
1. Early age 2 bow pike counters musk huss

2. Skirms + heavy infantry also counters musk huss (for ex- china pure std. Army vs brits musk huss)

3. Musk huss counters skirms+ cav( brit musk huss vs ulhan skirms)

4. Double cav (ranged cav plus hand cav) counters skirm cav( cuir + goons vs ulhan skirms)

5. Ranged infantry + hand infantry counters double cav

6. Skirm goon counters musk huss

7. Skirm hand cav soft counters musk skirms.

8. Skirm hand cav hard counters HI+ skirms.

9. Skirm hand cac soft counters skirm goon.

Now i am not sure about these 3 unit composition but still.

1. Skirms+goons+hand cav counters Skirms + musk/HI+ hand cav

Now i would like people to correct me where i am wrong here. And feel free to add more unit composition counters(with examples would be nice).

Bonus
Sepoy urumi taj mahal counters ALL.
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 916

31 May 2019, 08:48

Yes.
Italy Mosx
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Location: Viareggio,Italy

31 May 2019, 08:49

yes
Australia Kawapasaka
Lancer
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Location: Wales (new, south)

31 May 2019, 08:50

I'm fairly certain musk + huss > [anything] + pike.
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Italy Mosx
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Location: Viareggio,Italy

31 May 2019, 08:51

musk huss>skirm musk and also better then pike bow i guess,@Shikari Musk sepoy ashi ect=HI
India Shikari
Dragoon
Posts: 287
ESO: rahuru

31 May 2019, 08:55

I dont know @Garja told me that early on bow pike counters musk huss.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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31 May 2019, 11:38

skirm musk should destroy musk huss. Xbow pike kinda counters musk hiss even tho xbows have a sad multiplier and no instant shoot so they often fail. But like lbow pike does counter musk huss without ups.
Great Britain Hazza54321
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31 May 2019, 11:57

I dont think lb pike do tbh
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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31 May 2019, 12:30

Lbow trashes musk huss without ups. With ups balance is different. If more outmassed then probably even with ups.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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NWC LAN Gold
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Location: France

31 May 2019, 12:50

"9. Skirm hand cac soft counters skirm goon. "
Hard counter tbh.

lb/pike counters musk/huss, especially if you use the map or buildings.
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Italy Garja
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31 May 2019, 13:05

Anyway it's all about army proportions.
Great Britain Hazza54321
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31 May 2019, 13:09

I mean if lb pike countered musk huss then people would make lb in a brit mirror
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France [Armag] diarouga
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ESO: diarouga
Location: France

31 May 2019, 13:18

Hazza54321 wrote:I mean if lb pike countered musk huss then people would make lb in a brit mirror

Some people (spadel and veni) make lb in brit mirror sometimes, and it works fine. Going musk is usually better though because they're stronger when upgraded (and you have 2 cards to upgrade them), and more mobile.
Mobility is very important in brit mirror because raiding and sieging the fb is often what decides the game.
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Italy Garja
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31 May 2019, 13:48

Ye the reason why you don't go lbow pike is mostly becaue of mobility aka raiding and also ofc easier macro (same macro for age up). In narrow/small maps lbow/pike is ok. Lbow/musks prob even better.
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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31 May 2019, 14:05

Shikari wrote:Pls correct me if i am wrong

unit i mean
LI= skirms, crossbow etc.

You are wrong on the first line; LI = Light Infantry = "lesser cavalry", such as Coyote Runners.
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momuuu wrote:theres no way eaglemut is truly a top player
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Germany aligator92
Lancer
Posts: 792
ESO: aligator92

31 May 2019, 14:14

EAGLEMUT wrote:You are wrong on the first line; LI = Light Infantry = "lesser cavalry", such as Coyote Runners.

if quote == joke
return;
else
{
I think he just wanted to clarify his definitions for the following lines to not run into the LI, RI trap
return;
}

EDIT: apparantly leading spaces are ignored :(
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Brazil macacoalbino
Howdah
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ESO: Chumbo_Grosso_

31 May 2019, 19:47

Garja wrote:Anyway it's all about army proportions.

True, I thought the same, but I think you just assume equal res for both compositions to do this comparison
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No hacks just (lack of) skillz

twitch.tv/chumbo_grosso_
India Shikari
Dragoon
Posts: 287
ESO: rahuru

03 Jun 2019, 17:22

Well what i wanted to find out was can dopps skirms work vs ashi nagi. Since china mass of std. Army does seem to work i was wondering can germany do it too with free ulhans as well. But since i will be going dopps i guess will need 2 rax so ulhan become difficult to make. Maybe also put AA and church card for inf speed and better skirms. What do you say. Pls don't be meta slave and answer actually giving it a thought.

But ofcorse this would definitely suck if jap player adds yumi that i know.
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France Kaiserklein
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NWC LAN 4th place
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Location: Paris
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03 Jun 2019, 17:36

Dop skirm is theoretically a counter composition to ashi nagi. RI + HI > cav + HI
In practice though, dops get baited forward by nagis and get sniped down. You end up having no dops before opponent has no ashis (unless maybe you have a godlike micro and can abuse the cover mode really well and split fire your skirms on his ashis without targeting the nagis) so he'll have his nagis on top of your skirms at the end of the day.
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
India Shikari
Dragoon
Posts: 287
ESO: rahuru

04 Jun 2019, 07:04

Kaiserklein wrote:Dop skirm is theoretically a counter composition to ashi nagi. RI + HI > cav + HI
In practice though, dops get baited forward by nagis and get sniped down. You end up having no dops before opponent has no ashis (unless maybe you have a godlike micro and can abuse the cover mode really well and split fire your skirms on his ashis without targeting the nagis) so he'll have his nagis on top of your skirms at the end of the day.


Guess, I'll just micro my war wagons.
Just curious, have you ever seen someone do that kind of micro you are talking about.
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France Kaiserklein
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04 Jun 2019, 14:57

Yeah some good players whne they try hard, probably. But you don't see that very often. I mean, it's the same if you go skirm/pikes vs musk/huss to some extent. The problem is that ashis are faster, and japs usually remass more.
Just go war wagons yeah
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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ESO: Garja

04 Jun 2019, 15:16

Kaiserklein wrote:Dop skirm is theoretically a counter composition to ashi nagi. RI + HI > cav + HI
In practice though, dops get baited forward by nagis and get sniped down. You end up having no dops before opponent has no ashis (unless maybe you have a godlike micro and can abuse the cover mode really well and split fire your skirms on his ashis without targeting the nagis) so he'll have his nagis on top of your skirms at the end of the day.

It depends about numbers. With vet skirms you can outmicro to some extent and then cover mode dopps and eventually even charching ashi you can win that.
India Ashvin
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2076
ESO: Octanium

04 Jun 2019, 16:45

aligator92 wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:You are wrong on the first line; LI = Light Infantry = "lesser cavalry", such as Coyote Runners.

if quote == joke
return;
else
{
I think he just wanted to clarify his definitions for the following lines to not run into the LI, RI trap
return;
}

EDIT: apparantly leading spaces are ignored :(

too many syntactical errors
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Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6277

13 Jun 2019, 13:34

Kawapasaka wrote:I'm fairly certain musk + huss > [anything] + pike.

What about musk pike :D
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7797
ESO: Garja

13 Jun 2019, 13:35

Kawapasaka wrote:I'm fairly certain musk + huss > [anything] + pike.

Fairly certain this is not a correct statement.

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