Attack or HP

[Kawapasaka]

My logic for upgrade cards was always that for melee units, upgrading HP first is more important since they'll typically be taking damage in a fight more often than doing it. And for ranged units the opposite, as all will be doing damage, but only a few at a time taking damage. In a Brit mirror I would always send the attack card before HP.
But I've noticed on streams and in games that players often prioritise HP in every situation, even Dutch with their skirms (after the combat card ofc). Any reason for this?
Are base stats also a factor here? For example, a unit with relatively high attack but low HP - I assume upgrading its attack would be more efficient?

[gibson]

It just depends on the matchup honestly, there's no right answer in a vacuum.

[Mitoe]

Your logic is fine. Personally I think the people who send hp over attack upgrades for ranged infantry are doing it wrong.

There are some niches where hp might be better than attack (if upgrading attack doesn't result in killing the enemies units any faster, for example), but the vast majority of the time there's little reason to go for hp on ranged units over damage.

[deleted_user0]

should go ranged because of raids, and picking off some units with kiting. but in musk vs musk battles, it doesn't actually make that big of a difference. i tested it with cometk, and perhaps it matters in perfect conditions, but things such as positioning, concave spread, getting the first shot and just raw numbers matter way more. in general though, should go attack for ranged units for sure, and hp for most melee. abus being the exception because it already has high damage and the hp card is just too good.

[dansil92]

Attack is especially better for aura/ attack dance/pavillion where it grows exponentially off the base so like for aztec with full firepit the 15% attack is actually 15% x1.38 = 20.7%, but hp is only 15%

Same with yumi and pavillion/ daymios

[Hazza54321]

If half your army is damaged, hp might be better as it gives them enough hp to survive 1/2 more musk shots

[Kaiserklein]

My logic for upgrade cards was always that for melee units, upgrading HP first is more important since they'll typically be taking damage in a fight more often than doing it. And for ranged units the opposite, as all will be doing damage, but only a few at a time taking damage. In a Brit mirror I would always send the attack card before HP.

Yes, this is right. It's not always 100% true, but if you're not sure which to ship, go for hp for melee units and attack for ranged units.
In a brit mirror, it doesn't matter so much in fights because it's musks vs musks so if you ship hp and he ships attack it will negate each other (still 7 shots for musks to kill each other). However, attack is still better overall, because it makes musks better at raiding and sieging.

But I've noticed on streams and in games that players often prioritise HP in every situation, even Dutch with their skirms (after the combat card ofc). Any reason for this?

I don't remember seeing it so much, but well people make mistakes sometimes. Dutch should always ship the skirm attack card first, it's better for kiting especially vs huss. Then obviously hp is a team card so it's better than attack whenever a mate makes some infantry. Same goes for ger/fr, you usually want to ship the hp first, but in team the attack is often better.

Are base stats also a factor here? For example, a unit with relatively high attack but low HP - I assume upgrading its attack would be more efficient?

It's hard to answer, it depends on which units you're up against. For example, let's say you're otto making abus vs dutch. If he's going heavy on skirms, attack won't be very useful because you will still kill his skirms in 3 hits anyway. However, hp would let you tank an extra 2 skirm shots, which is big. But if you need to kite huss with your abus, then attack is better because you'll snipe them faster.
Increasing the attack of a high attack unit sounds sexy, but it sometimes means you'll just overkill even more (like for abus vs skirms). Similarly, increasing the hp of a low hp unit can mean you'll need the same amount of hits to die anyway.

Ultimately though, it's usually not a huge deal if you ship the wrong sort of upgrade.

If half your army is damaged, hp might be better as it gives them enough hp to survive 1/2 more musk shots

I'm quite sure damaged units will get +15% of their current hp, so if anything it sounds like it's worse than giving them extra attack I think?

[bwinner]

If half your army is damaged, hp might be better as it gives them enough hp to survive 1/2 more musk shots

I'm quite sure damaged units will get +15% of their current hp, so if anything it sounds like it's worse than giving them extra attack I think?

I don't think so, great coats gives all the extra HP for sure so I assume it's the same for any other upgrade.

[Hazza54321]

Surviving 1 or 2 more shots sounds better than 1 more att no? Dunno

[Garja]

In general it's about the same. Just send w/e thing is more impactful at the time.

[Kaiserklein]

If half your army is damaged, hp might be better as it gives them enough hp to survive 1/2 more musk shots

I'm quite sure damaged units will get +15% of their current hp, so if anything it sounds like it's worse than giving them extra attack I think?

I don't think so, great coats gives all the extra HP for sure so I assume it's the same for any other upgrade.

Ah yeah that's true

Surviving 1 or 2 more shots sounds better than 1 more att no? Dunno

Well yeah if you have low hp units, getting +15% of their base hp is more significant than getting +15% attack, provided that they get targeted. If they don't get targeted though, I'm not sure there's a huge difference between hp and attack. But yeah hp better if you have lots of low hp units I guess

[Mameluke]

Offense is the best defense - not only in soccer.

[dansil92]

I think hp is generally better than attack, for the same reason we all ship mamelukes but rarely ship hackapells. Mamelukes are forgiving, posisitioning is basically irrelevant, they stay alive for ages. Hackapells usually get one swing or two and then poof no more. Like, well positioned hackapells are amazing at what they do, but terrible at what they dont. But these are melee units...

On the other hand, forest prowlers > skirms because their attack is higher, despite their slightly lower hp. So with ranged units damage seems more relevant. The same is true of cannons which have low hp and insane damage output.

I think generally it doesnt matter a whole lot but i agree with what has been said above about sending hp to buff low hp units just a little bit

[tabben]

Offense is the best defense - not only in soccer.

Oos is the best defense - not only in quicksearch.

[Kaiserklein]

I think hp is generally better than attack, for the same reason we all ship mamelukes but rarely ship hackapells.

Well that's precisely because the role of a cav unit is mostly to tank and snare, and mamelukes are doing that perfectly. It doesn't mean hp is generally better

[dansil92]

I think hp is generally better than attack, for the same reason we all ship mamelukes but rarely ship hackapells.

Well that's precisely because the role of a cav unit is mostly to tank and snare, and mamelukes are doing that perfectly. It doesn't mean hp is generally better

Thats why i went on to say it is because they are melee units, whereas forest prowlers crap on skirms because the high damage

[Hazza54321]

Ranged infantry tend to be the ones with higher attack. You want the melee shit to tank and snare as long as possible, hence why id rather have rod and cav hp > cav and rod att for example.

[TheNameDaniel]

just send team hardwoods > hp or att

[dansil92]

Team hardwoods + india = gg ez

[Kickass_OP]

Offense is the best defense - not only in soccer.

Oos is the best defense - not only in quicksearch.

Poor tinfa Always present with the best strategies.

[occamslightsaber]

I know the rule of thumb is to favor attack over hp boost for skirmishers since they are so often used to kite, but I'm not sure if this is wise any more given their tendency to overkill. It feels like 15% damage increase is irrelevant when your 20 skirms are going to shoot at the same unit anyway. Even when microing properly, players simply guesstimate how many skirms are selected with a drag-box in the heat of battle and end up overkilling half the time. At least with the hp boost, it will consistently prolong the enemy cavalry's time to kill vs your skirms.

[yemshi]

HP/ Attk doesnt affect skirms anyway.

[Jostantheking]

I think attack is more valuable than hp cuz you are more offensively geared then you can counterattack well