Defensive agra

[Sergeant_Recker]

hello guys, i would like to know whether doing this strategy as india is any good or viable. So, sending the distributivism, the wood trickle card as the first shipment the standard way to play india but what if we build a tp from the 300 w start and send advanced wonder card first (it can increase the agra's stats with 2500+ hp and makes it building 25% faster) and then send the wood trickle card. It can give some idle tc time but still it doesn't delay your age up time (since building the wonder is faster), even if i click at 3:40 to age up with 1 villie, i can age up by ~5:00 - 5:10, on transition you can add a 2nd tp to be greedy or make 2 more houses to make sepoys/gurks. The things that you get when you age up are: a 7500 hp defensive agra, a tp and houses or 2 tps and houses/ a tp, market and house (if enough treasures gathered). My friend Cassador33 is a better player, so i asked him to do it. The experiment somehow worked out well, he beated me with good eco and good mass. i am not a good player tho so, i wanted to know, is this any good ? or can i improvise this? i also attach a record game here, cassador33 played the defensive agra strat.

[Kaiserklein]

If you want to tp, it has to be on 400w start. You idle too much on 300w, it's just not worth it. And if you do build a tp, you'd ship the wood trickle first because thanks to the extra xp you'll get it earlier and get more wood out of it. Then you can ship a second card, usually good faith agreements, but I guess you can go advanced wonders if you really want. It's a waste of a card in most situations though.

[[Armag] diarouga]

300w is fine too. You don't iddle a bit but it doesn't really matter since you will have more shipments.

[Kaiserklein]

If you TP on 300w you're basically cutting 1v and you age up even later

[[Armag] diarouga]

If you TP on 300w you're basically cutting 1v and you age up even later

Yea, you're cutting 1v. You don't really age later because you put 4vills on the agra although it will cost you some resources, and the extra shipment is definitely worth if you want to play defensive.

[gibson]

You don't idle that much, a few seconds for your 2nd vil and a few seconds after you build your first house. You just need to have good vil control and don't eat your food crates. The annoying thing is you age like 530 or 540 if you only have 1 vil on the agra and choose not to idle any more in age 1. I think in certain maps it's better. Great lakes especially if you get the top spawn for example. Iv shipped trickle gfa and had back to back shipments in age 2 between the sheep and taking another tp in transition. It just feels really good once you actually get aged. You get an extra vil from your extra age 1 shipment so it makes up for the vil you delete by idling

[Kaiserklein]

Well I tried to go for TP as india on 400w before, without gathering any food at all obviously, and I didn't idle but barely. Was like exactly the right amount of wood to get TP, vils and house in time. So based on that, if you start with 100 less wood, you should idle one whole vil. And idling a whole vil in early discovery is really bad since it will delay your whole build. And since you'll age up at 5+ min, the extra xp you get will start being relevant at no earlier than 6 minutes, by which time the vil you lost roughly 5 min ago would have already gathered 300 VS. That's like 200w for india. You'll lose another 200w each 5 minutes because of that, plus you aged super late. You do get like 100w back (at best) from getting the wood trickle earlier, but still...

Instead you could get your TP in transition with one more vil and still get a good xp income. Imo it's obvious going TP on 300w is bad. I know I don't play india but this is just maths really, and I was even optimistic in my calculations.

[Garja]

If you TP start as India it's not for efficiency. Given that age up is not dependant on vill production, idle TC is not that important. The main drawback is simply delayed age up time which is strategically relevant.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I just tested it, you can age up at 4:50 on a 300w start. Normal age up time except you get an early TP instead of 1.5 vills, totally worth it if you want to go defensive agra.

EP recorded game 1.age3Yrec

(921 KiB) Downloaded 34 times

ESOC Hudson Bay

Rules: Supremacy (1v1)

Version: ESOC Patch 6.1

Length: 5 minutes

Soliman

(4F4) azertyuiopni (PR 29)

[Mr_Bramboy]

I just tested it, you can age up at 4:50 on a 300w start. Normal age up time except you get an early TP instead of 1.5 vills, totally worth it if you want to go defensive agra.

EP recorded game 1.age3Yrec

Am I the only one who ages 5:30 on a good day?

[[Armag] diarouga]

I just tested it, you can age up at 4:50 on a 300w start. Normal age up time except you get an early TP instead of 1.5 vills, totally worth it if you want to go defensive agra.

EP recorded game 1.age3Yrec

Am I the only one who ages 5:30 on a good day?

Nope, check rouga vs aizamk game 1.

[gibson]

well 530 is normal if you tp on 300w, you only really go faster with treasures/adding more vils to wonder

[WickedCossack]

All these muppets aging before 7 minutes ?!?

Please enjoy my shameless self promotion regarding TP start with advanced wonders card:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX7EQCdpAHM&t=20m41s

Different build but it's somewhat viable, ish.

[Sargsyan]

All these muppets aging before 7 minutes ?!?

Please enjoy my shameless self promotion regarding TP start with advanced wonders card:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX7EQCdpAHM&t=20m41s

Different build but it's somewhat viable, ish.

that game was AWESOME

[lemmings121]

300w doesn't come with a free vill.

[gibson]

300w doesn't come with a free vill.

the start not the shipment

[lemmings121]

Oops

[Garja]

TP+advanced wonder card is MY strat. I give you the water strat tho.
Anyway, even with 400w it's hard to age sub 5 min without a significant help from treasures or the Advanced Wonder card.

[Hazza54321]

dont think anyone wants to claim that strat anyway

[Kaiserklein]

I just tested it, you can age up at 4:50 on a 300w start. Normal age up time except you get an early TP instead of 1.5 vills, totally worth it if you want to go defensive agra.

So you think trading 1.5v for like 300 xp is worth it? You realize that by when the extra xp starts being relevant, which is at least after your first colo shipment, the vils already gathered like half a shipment worth of resources?

[Garja]

300xp is indeed relevant, it's 2min+ faster shipment progression

dont think anyone wants to claim that strat anyway

Too bad cause it's basically the improved version of what everyone already does.

[Aizamk]

having extensively tried both, I'm pretty sure I came to the conclusion GFA is better value than advanced wonders. I think the logic was that AW arrives too late since you've already started aging up by the time it arrives. taking age1 TP is always good with india though.

edit: wait, this is about sending AW first. can't say I like that.

[kami_ryu]

All these muppets aging before 7 minutes ?!?

Please enjoy my shameless self promotion regarding TP start with advanced wonders card:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX7EQCdpAHM&t=20m41s

Different build but it's somewhat viable, ish.

oh my, this was such a treat to watch. you mad scientist

[Garja]

No it is AW 2nd after trickle but it should arrive in time.
The benefit is different from GFA as it is purely strategic and not for extra efficiency.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I just tested it, you can age up at 4:50 on a 300w start. Normal age up time except you get an early TP instead of 1.5 vills, totally worth it if you want to go defensive agra.

So you think trading 1.5v for like 300 xp is worth it? You realize that by when the extra xp starts being relevant, which is at least after your first colo shipment, the vils already gathered like half a shipment worth of resources?

Yes, it's worth. As Aztecs you often send 3wp instead of 5vills (ie 3 TP instead of 5v) and it's the obvious choice most of the time. Even after 4 years of TP meta, people still overrate vills and underrate TPs.