India vs Otto - how to deal with Abus gun?

[Mameluke]

Hey, how do I deal versus Abus gun as India? The only thing I am always trying is to get out a bigger Gurkha mass than my opponent has Abus Gun.

tyia (thank you in advance)

[[Armag] diarouga]

You don't.
You have to wait at home with skirm/sowar and hope he overcommits and you kill him with minutemen, else you lose.

[edeholland]

I usually mass inf and get my cav mass from 4 sowar shipment + gardeners from consulate. Maybe tiger claws can work if you pop them right.

[Mitoe]

Age 2 Taj Mahal Sepoy Sowar Tiger ceasefire!

...FF for elephants is ok too.

I think the most success I had in this matchup was going 10/10 600c straight FF, or just straight up rushing the fb with 12 sepoy (which is actually quite difficult to hold as Otto if you 10/10 and follow it up with 4 sowar if you don't break it immediately), but it's still a very difficult matchup.

[Mameluke]

Age 2 Taj Mahal Sepoy Sowar Tiger ceasefire!

...FF for elephants is ok too

y thought about elephants but I like the cease fire strat, would like to see a gameplay were this strategy was abused. thank you

[Mitoe]

Just so things don't get taken the wrong way, I was trolling about the Colonial ceasefire. Although come to think of it Colonial Taj Mahal might actually be good in team games if you all go melee / musket units.

[[Armag] diarouga]

FF into howdahs is indeed decent.
It's going to be a tough hold but then you'll bash his army.

[Mameluke]

trolling...sounded nice to imagine tigerclaw walk through jans onto abus and kill them all...

[bwinner]

well india is a non TP map civ and otto a TP map civ, but still people use the heaviest TP map to balance the MU cuz they pick india on it no matter what and never pick otto on no TP map. If you look at the MU average on the entire map pool, it's fair MU Imo.

About the initial question I would agree with what diarouga says for a stagecoach map. Are you sure you don't die if you try to age up vs age 2 otto @Mitoe ?

[[Armag] diarouga]

well india is a non TP map civ and otto a TP map civ, but still people use the heaviest TP map to balance the MU cuz they pick india on it no matter what and never pick otto on no TP map. If you look at the MU average on the entire map pool, it's fair MU Imo.

About the initial question I would agree with what diarouga says for a stagecoach map. Are you sure you don't die if you try to age up vs age 2 otto @Mitoe ?

Tbh you should pick arkansas or Hudson bay as references when discussing balance.

[gibson]

Otto India fair mu hot take!

[bwinner]

well india is a non TP map civ and otto a TP map civ, but still people use the heaviest TP map to balance the MU cuz they pick india on it no matter what and never pick otto on no TP map. If you look at the MU average on the entire map pool, it's fair MU Imo.

About the initial question I would agree with what diarouga says for a stagecoach map. Are you sure you don't die if you try to age up vs age 2 otto @Mitoe ?

Tbh you should pick arkansas or Hudson bay as references when discussing balance.

well why would you play india on this map on a tourney ? just keep them for no TP map

[[Armag] diarouga]

well india is a non TP map civ and otto a TP map civ, but still people use the heaviest TP map to balance the MU cuz they pick india on it no matter what and never pick otto on no TP map. If you look at the MU average on the entire map pool, it's fair MU Imo.

About the initial question I would agree with what diarouga says for a stagecoach map. Are you sure you don't die if you try to age up vs age 2 otto @Mitoe ?

Tbh you should pick arkansas or Hudson bay as references when discussing balance.

well why would you play india on this map on a tourney ? just keep them for no TP map

Picking India on Hudson used to be the standard in 2015-2016.

Anyway, we had a discussion about the maps after this tourney, and they might put less TP maps next time (ie only one) because it was always India/Russia/Dutch.
So most players would play Russia and keep India for another map.

By the way, Otto was better than India on Deccan (Hazza showed it) but it wasn't played because you had it to keep it for HP.

[deleted_user0]

You can easily hold at base but there is no way to push out vs jan/abus. Best shot is urumi/cease fire. Don't try to cav, indian cav is terrible.

[Hazza54321]

if you think otto india is a fair MU then youre trippin da fuck out

[bwinner]

I think it's 70-30 for otto on heavy TP (aka hudson bay+), 55-45 for otto on bad stagecoach maps (kamch for instance) and 90-10 for india on no TP map, so if we average on all map that's must be about fair

[Lukas_L99]

I think pulling vills vs Jan-Abus can be decent

[[Armag] diarouga]

I think it's 70-30 for otto on heavy TP (aka hudson bay+), 55-45 for otto on bad stagecoach maps (kamch for instance) and 90-10 for india on no TP map, so if we average on all map that's must be about fair

Yea but you don't play this on no TP maps xD.

[bwinner]

I think it's 70-30 for otto on heavy TP (aka hudson bay+), 55-45 for otto on bad stagecoach maps (kamch for instance) and 90-10 for india on no TP map, so if we average on all map that's must be about fair

Yea but you don't play this on no TP maps xD.

my all point is you shouldn't play it either on heavy TP map. This is just the case because india is strong overall. So we should see this match only where it's 55-45 if you go like that.

[dansil92]

You could just make pure zambs vs otto and once camel attack is in they certainly aren't bad vs jan abus. I wouldnt call it ideal but its better than those stupid sowars

[fei123456]

The key is to hold the match until you have twice as many vills as ottoman. RE ottoman are quite lame, but their eco is awkward.

[Mitoe]

well india is a non TP map civ and otto a TP map civ, but still people use the heaviest TP map to balance the MU cuz they pick india on it no matter what and never pick otto on no TP map. If you look at the MU average on the entire map pool, it's fair MU Imo.

About the initial question I would agree with what diarouga says for a stagecoach map. Are you sure you don't die if you try to age up vs age 2 otto @Mitoe ?

You can hold with Agra while you FF. Karni can work too but not vs anything all in. You will be giving up a fair bit of eco but you don’t really need eco vs Otto.

[FKFace]

if you think otto india is a fair MU then youre trippin da fuck out

Tell them Dadda54321

[bwinner]

You could just make pure zambs vs otto and once camel attack is in they certainly aren't bad vs jan abus. I wouldnt call it ideal but its better than those stupid sowars

That's probably the most terrible idea you can have in this MU. Sowar are no goons, they are very specialized in killing cav and it's quite unlikely that otto will go heavy on cav. The 2 main opening as otto vs india are jan/abus and jan/falcs, so zamb are absolute garbage vs both.

[Garja]

Try karni mata 600w 600g 700f. Make a TP in transition e use 600w for 2nd rax. Then spam sepoy+gurka. If you macro well you should be able to barely keep up with otto mass.
Other alternatives are naked ff with agra+taj mahal e howdah spam.
Also just aggro start with in base agra.