Build order optimisations

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

I'll look into this at some point tonight/tomorrow morning, appears that there is some confusion going on with some interesting combinations of summer palace troop selection and the resource selected on the porcelain tower. I will also clarify age up time with different Vills.

[deleted_user0]

3) You don't always want it, but its the most versatile. If you're sure your opponent goes for a cav semi you can put it on the anti cav army, if you know a russian guy likes to go very strel heavy you can leave it on the standard army.

i disagree, you always want territorial on your wonder in age3, with the exception of when you're facing severe pressure from an age2 civ, like for example vs russia, in that case, just leave it on bow pike as it comes faster and you need any units to hold.

the reason you want territorial is because it just comes way faster than the ones with cav, it's almost 2x as fast.

I think you misunderstood me, I was only talking about age 2.

ah ok, ye then you're right.

[Riotcoke]

I'll look into this at some point tonight/tomorrow morning, appears that there is some confusion going on with some interesting combinations of summer palace troop selection and the resource selected on the porcelain tower. I will also clarify age up time with different Vills.

If you also get the time could you look into how long it takes to get a benefit from the porcelain tower as compared to the skirm wonder i.e how long does the tower take to get the resource value of the skirms with its Vs advantage over crow production

[bwinner]

time to build : ttb
vs lost : vsl
vs won : vsw

The loss : 4 villagers building the wonder during 150-4*10s

The gain : 8 villagers equivalent for 4*10s

According to my computation you lose vs even for 4 vils on it, what am I doing wrong @Mitoe ?

[gamevideo113]

@[Armag] diarouga
Advanced market question:
Buying 400w costs 406 coin with advanced market. Therefore, you want to buy 1406 coin with food. Buying 1407 coin with food costs 1700 food. Assuming no HD and ST, it's 2024 VS worth of food for 2345 VS worth of coin. If you have HD and ST, it becomes 1557 VS worth of food. You do the maths of the savings

If you just want to buy the 1000c instead
It takes 1200 food to get 1020 coin with advanced market. You're trading 1428 VS of food for 1700 vs of coin assuming no HD and no ST. If you have those upgrades, it becomes 1090 VS of food.

[gamevideo113]

time to build : ttb
vs lost : vsl
vs won : vsw

CodeCogsEqn(1).png

CodeCogsEqn(2).png

According to my computation you lose vs even for 4 vils on it, what am I doing wrong @Mitoe ?

You need to considerate the fact that aging before will make the porcelain tower start working earlier, netting you more resources.

[bwinner]

time to build : ttb
vs lost : vsl
vs won : vsw

CodeCogsEqn(1).png

CodeCogsEqn(2).png

According to my computation you lose vs even for 4 vils on it, what am I doing wrong @Mitoe ?

You need to considerate the fact that aging before will make the porcelain tower start working earlier, netting you more resources.

well it is what is in the vs won
But it's jsut less than what you lose.

[gamevideo113]

My bad, my brain just farted

[Riotcoke]

@[Armag] diarouga
Advanced market question:
Buying 400w costs 406 coin with advanced market. Therefore, you want to buy 1406 coin with food. Buying 1407 coin with food costs 1700 food. Assuming no HD and ST, it's 2024 VS worth of food for 2345 VS worth of coin. If you have HD and ST, it becomes 1557 VS worth of food. You do the maths of the savings

If you just want to buy the 1000c instead
It takes 1200 food to get 1020 coin with advanced market. You're trading 1428 VS of food for 1700 vs of coin assuming no HD and no ST. If you have those upgrades, it becomes 1090 VS of food.

In that situation would it not be better to send the food into gold age 1 card as it's more efficient?

[gamevideo113]

@[Armag] diarouga
Advanced market question:
Buying 400w costs 406 coin with advanced market. Therefore, you want to buy 1406 coin with food. Buying 1407 coin with food costs 1700 food. Assuming no HD and ST, it's 2024 VS worth of food for 2345 VS worth of coin. If you have HD and ST, it becomes 1557 VS worth of food. You do the maths of the savings

If you just want to buy the 1000c instead
It takes 1200 food to get 1020 coin with advanced market. You're trading 1428 VS of food for 1700 vs of coin assuming no HD and no ST. If you have those upgrades, it becomes 1090 VS of food.

In that situation would it not be better to send the food into gold age 1 card as it's more efficient?

Not sure, not every civ has it, and also i guess it's nice to have advanced market for the rest of the game

[gamevideo113]

More thoughts on the matter:
Aging with 500f and advanced market and selling it for coing gives you 441 coin. Basically we have a new politician

[gamevideo113]

Advanced market for TAD civs also has better selling rates, so you basically only need to sell 1100 food to get 1000+ coin. On top of that you also get the market rickshaw.

[Riotcoke]

Advanced market for TAD civs also has better selling rates, so you basically only need to sell 1100 food to get 1000+ coin

Its also an extra 100 wood as if gives you a market wagon

[Mitoe]

time to build : ttb
vs lost : vsl
vs won : vsw

The loss : 4 villagers building the wonder during 150-4*10s

CodeCogsEqn(1).png

The gain : 8 villagers equivalent for 4*10s

CodeCogsEqn(2).png

According to my computation you lose vs even for 4 vils on it, what am I doing wrong @Mitoe ?

I’m only checking this when I have a couple of minutes at a time available so I’m not checking your math super closely but here’s what I got:

4 vills gather wood at 2/s

So with no vills on wonder leaving those 4 vills chopping earns you 150*2 wood (300).

Putting vills on the wonder saves 50 seconds, and gets you the porcelain tower earlier. So once you’ve constructed the tower you have those 4 vills gathering + the tower gathering which works out to be 6/s total. So 50*6 is 300w, meaning in this 150 second window you gain the same number of resources regardless of whether you put 0 vills or 4 vills.

[bwinner]

time to build : ttb
vs lost : vsl
vs won : vsw

The loss : 4 villagers building the wonder during 150-4*10s

CodeCogsEqn(1).png

The gain : 8 villagers equivalent for 4*10s

CodeCogsEqn(2).png

According to my computation you lose vs even for 4 vils on it, what am I doing wrong @Mitoe ?

I’m only checking this when I have a couple of minutes at a time available so I’m not checking your math super closely but here’s what I got:

4 vills gather wood at 2/s

So with no vills on wonder leaving those 4 vills chopping earns you 150*2 wood (300).

Putting vills on the wonder saves 50 seconds, and gets you the porcelain tower earlier. So once you’ve constructed the tower you have those 4 vills gathering + the tower gathering which works out to be 6/s total. So 50*6 is 300w, meaning in this 150 second window you gain the same number of resources regardless of whether you put 0 vills or 4 vills.

50s ?? I have always though it was 10s per vil for the 1st 4 ? Then yeah it would be even for me as well

[Mitoe]

It’s 8.3% per vill for the first 4. Then it’s 4.15% for the next 4. That works out to 12.5 ish seconds off of 150 second wonder.

[Kaiserklein]

Think the maths are very easy, just need to get the right numbers

[ListlessSalmon]

It’s 8.3% per vill for the first 4. Then it’s 4.15% for the next 4. That works out to 12.5 ish seconds off of 150 second wonder.

If this is correct and the first 4 vills reduce the total by 1/12 of the total then the next 4 reduce by 1/24 (i.e. so the same as how colo wonders work) then 8 vills should be the same VS as 4 vills (and 0 vills). Thats true even if the base was something else.

[Mitoe]

You’re right. Not sure how I came to the conclusion that 4 netted you resources instead of breaking even. Guess the final conclusion then should be to put as many vills as possible on it all the time.