New Civ-Tierlist?

[Scroogie]

I posted a while back about a civ-Tierlist, and there were good polls back then, but now with NWC and tons of new development, i feel some things might have changed. Does someone have up-to-date data?

I would imagine Sioux, Russia and India being pretty high up, and Spain being quite low. Everything else in middle and the meta is also quite map depended i feel.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Tier 1 (Germany) :
Germany 9

Tier 2 (top civs) :
Brit 8
Iroquois 8
India 8
Sioux 8
Otto 8

Tier 3 (average civs) :
China 7
Russia 7
Dutch 6
France 6
Japan 6
Port 6
Spain 5

Trash tier (unplayable civ) :
Aztecs 4

[Scroogie]

Why is Germany top civ? They have many close matchups imo, being Brit,Sioux,France,China,Otto,India and maybe Iro but i've never seen that.

Also i'm interested why Aztecs is considered so bad, in Goodspeeds guide they were top4, what changed?

[edeholland]

https://tiermaker.com/create/aoe3-civs-98037

[Kawapasaka]

Why is Germany top civ? They have many close matchups imo, being Brit,Sioux,France,China,Otto,India and maybe Iro but i've never seen that.

Also i'm interested why Aztecs is considered so bad, in Goodspeeds guide they were top4, what changed?

Goodspeed's guide was for the official patch.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Why is Germany top civ? They have many close matchups imo, being Brit,Sioux,France,China,Otto,India and maybe Iro but i've never seen that.

Also i'm interested why Aztecs is considered so bad, in Goodspeeds guide they were top4, what changed?

France, China, Otto and India aren't close, Germany should win. The reason why Germany is top civ is that it doesn't lose a single MUs, you can win every MU if you play properly, while all the other civs have at least one bad match-up.

Aztecs is trash because it loses to every civ in the game. To be honest, I've never understood why GS and _H2O considered that the civ was good.

[Scroogie]

Why is Germany top civ? They have many close matchups imo, being Brit,Sioux,France,China,Otto,India and maybe Iro but i've never seen that.

Also i'm interested why Aztecs is considered so bad, in Goodspeeds guide they were top4, what changed?

Goodspeed's guide was for the official patch.

Yea and i wanna know what changed since then for Azzy.

[[Armag] diarouga]

[Astaroth]

Shouldn't France be better than Dutch?

Or are you only considering civs on their top maps, i.e. France on TP maps vs other TP civs is worse than Dutch on no TP vs other no TP civs?

[[Armag] diarouga]

I don't think France is better than Dutch, it's about even.
This was considering a decent map such as kamchatka btw.

[Astaroth]

Shouldn't France be better, though?

Much more flexible, stronger Age2 (despite age2 skirms), stronger semi FF, better eco at least on TP maps, 2 falc shipment, better scaling and late game?

Dutch only has like 2 advantages, age2 skirms and partly less raidable eco.

Aside from that, can't France (on TP maps) just stagecoach FF, have a comparable eco, mass skirm goon, outboom Dutch over time and 2falcs as well? What can Dutch do that France can't do better?

[Hazza54321]

I think dutch is better. However i dont think dutchare that strong.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Dutch has better eco so not sure France is better.

[zoom]

I posted a while back about a civ-Tierlist, and there were good polls back then, but now with NWC and tons of new development, i feel some things might have changed. Does someone have up-to-date data?

I would imagine Sioux, Russia and India being pretty high up, and Spain being quite low. Everything else in middle and the meta is also quite map depended i feel.

https://tinyurl.com/yxvmgyb8

[jesus3]

To me it's more like this. Not much of a change, but imo India can just get away with anything right now.

[Scroogie]

To me it's more like this. Not much of a change, but imo India can just get away with anything right now.

Why do you put dutch in A?

[Astaroth]

Dutch has better eco so not sure France is better.

Does it, though?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but when France reaches age2 (14 cdb), dutch (15 bill up) should probably have 16 vills in age2 plus a bank, making 20 vills. But without considering market ups, France already has 17,5 vills at this point (14 cdb). With steel traps (which Dutch doesn't get so early or doesn't profit from as much), it is about even at 20 vills.

Note that Dutch has to invest more res into vills and 700 res per bank for this, too.

If Dutch goes bank wagon and France 4 cdb, France is actually up by another vill. Even if Dutch goes 700w for 2 banks instead, that means they have to invest crazy amounts of foods for a rather meager payoff.

In total, Dutch will at most be up by 8 vills (4 banks; the 2 first banks get compensated by 4 cdb, market ups etc) over France for a short period of time, which might sound like a lot, but France just needs 2 TP stagecoach to equal that again. Which also cost a lot less than 2 banks.

On top of that, the 8 vill advantage doesn't last long (France produces vills more quickly) and costs Dutch much more than other boom civs like Brits or Japan.

Tl;dr: on no TP maps, Dutch has a short term, but very expensive eco advantage over France, on TP maps France has a comparable or better eco for less resources.

[[Armag] diarouga]

You seem to forget that banks give a lot of exp, and Dutch can probably let France take 2 TPs and stagecoach and contest it in fortress.

[Riotcoke]

To me it's more like this. Not much of a change, but imo India can just get away with anything right now.

India at least loses to iro pretty badly

[Mitoe]

France v Dutch is a pretty close matchup, IMO. I’d be fine with playing either side of that; I think France is pretty underrated in general but particularly in that matchup.



As for the actual question of this thread I actually find it too difficult to rate the civs accurately right now. Most matchups don’t feel totally one sided on the current patch, so it’s hard to say which civs are best aside from above average and below average.

I guess the main thing I would disagree with from most players right now is how good Ger/India are. I think aside from ceasefire India’s actually pretty mediocre at the moment, and I’m not even sure ceasefire should be as successful as it is currently.

Germany is also a bit overrated I think, but it’s definitely good. Not the clear #1 I would say though.

[Hazza54321]

Me and @lordraphael played france vs dutch alot and it felt dutch favoured as they won most games no matter who was playing them.

[Scroogie]

France v Dutch is a pretty close matchup, IMO. I’d be fine with playing either side of that; I think France is pretty underrated in general but particularly in that matchup.

Why do you feel France is underrated? What aspect makes them better than most people think?
They're quite average on RE and only got nerfed on EP.

[Hazza54321]

They were good on RE but maps and civ buffs made france lower on the tier list.

[Kaiserklein]

Ep maps are good for france in most mus though. It's true it's not as good as on RE but I'd say it's at least average on EP. It's definitely versatile, can't be counter picked, and has a great age 1 on maps with good treasures and/or livestock. Solid first pick in tourney.

[Garja]