What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

France Kaiserklein
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Kaiserklein »

Garja wrote:500f age up and 700g is indeed faster.

Yeah but pretty much no one does that cause it's kinda crap

macacoalbino wrote:Blablabla, they talk a lot about build orders but you gotta focus on the gameplan.
Use uhlans to idle their vills a lot, dont lose them to tc fire though, focus on making their walk to tc and back to resources again all the time until they bring jan back to defend.
Use tc fire to snipe abus, whenever he is in range you should target fire in the abus since it’s sooo good to kill them in 2shots.

Blablabla, we said that already.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Shikari »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:But if you're not making any units why would you send 700c after? You can just gather everything and send wood or even save the shipment?

3SW/700w is the standard build order.
On a TP start however (and only on a TP start), you can go 3SW/700c and have a ridiculous age up time (almost 7min in fortress), but to TP start with Germany is just a joke.

You seems to be overrating it a bit imo. Sure it's strong but fr can do the same thing basically. With tp start and they'll have more shipment than Germany cause they don't have xp penalty. And sure ger. Shipments are better but still the amount of wood you need to chop for it is insane. I don't think it's as strong as people make it to be.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by macacoalbino »

@Kaiserklein but you didn’t state the details
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Shikari wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:But if you're not making any units why would you send 700c after? You can just gather everything and send wood or even save the shipment?

3SW/700w is the standard build order.
On a TP start however (and only on a TP start), you can go 3SW/700c and have a ridiculous age up time (almost 7min in fortress), but to TP start with Germany is just a joke.

You seems to be overrating it a bit imo. Sure it's strong but fr can do the same thing basically. With tp start and they'll have more shipment than Germany cause they don't have xp penalty. And sure ger. Shipments are better but still the amount of wood you need to chop for it is insane. I don't think it's as strong as people make it to be.

You can do the same as France, except you don't have 30 free uhlans and a 40 skirm shipment :chinese:
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

macacoalbino wrote:Blablabla, they talk a lot about build orders but you gotta focus on the gameplan.
Use uhlans to idle their vills a lot, dont lose them to tc fire though, focus on making otto vills walk to tc and back to resources again all the time until they bring jan back to defend.
Use tc fire to snipe abus, whenever he is in range you should target fire in the abus since it’s sooo good to kill them in 2shots.
Whenever you finally age abuse the difference of range between skirms and abus (20 vs 18) and mass WW since they are good vs both their units
Ps: about housing, build them behind tc so you can pop units+mm+sw and explo if he overcommits to try and kill them

This is the answer. The OP is a 2nd lieutenant. The order of the first few colonial shipments really doesn't matter at this point. Follow Macaco's tips and ship whatever you want and you'll see improvement soon.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Shikari »

I honestly did all of this except I think I only went to raid once and then came half way dont know why. But still lost. I have the recording I can upload but tbh it was quiet frustrating and it felt like I couldnt have done anything. The only thing I can think of right now that I should have done better is make houses behind tc. I also had some settler wagon in tc in the starting which I was aware of I shouldn't do but I fixed it as soon as I was able to. But still i dont know if i had won by even doing all these things.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Garja »

Kaiserklein wrote:
Garja wrote:500f age up and 700g is indeed faster.

Yeah but pretty much no one does that cause it's kinda crap

vs otto I think it's fine
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by macacoalbino »

Shikari wrote:I honestly did all of this except I think I only went to raid once and then came half way dont know why. But still lost. I have the recording I can upload but tbh it was quiet frustrating and it felt like I couldnt have done anything. The only thing I can think of right now that I should have done better is make houses behind tc. I also had some settler wagon in tc in the starting which I was aware of I shouldn't do but I fixed it as soon as I was able to. But still i dont know if i had won by even doing all these things.

Upload it when you can, I can check it and give you some tips. Meanwhile try to focus on these things you said you failed. These small things add up in a scrapy game like this. And trust me, uhlans walking in and out their base is a pain in the ass to deal with as otto with such an immobile army. Whenever you feel like there’s spare time, go take a walk in his base. No need to bring them all the way back unless you’re shipping 8bows and will try to make a defensive timing with uhlans to snare
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Shikari »

macacoalbino wrote:
Shikari wrote:I honestly did all of this except I think I only went to raid once and then came half way dont know why. But still lost. I have the recording I can upload but tbh it was quiet frustrating and it felt like I couldnt have done anything. The only thing I can think of right now that I should have done better is make houses behind tc. I also had some settler wagon in tc in the starting which I was aware of I shouldn't do but I fixed it as soon as I was able to. But still i dont know if i had won by even doing all these things.

Upload it when you can, I can check it and give you some tips. Meanwhile try to focus on these things you said you failed. These small things add up in a scrapy game like this. And trust me, uhlans walking in and out their base is a pain in the ass to deal with as otto with duch an immobile army. Whenever you feel like there’s spare time, go take a walk in his base. No need to bring them all the way back unless you’re shipping 8bows and will try to make a defensive timing with uhlans to snare

http://www.twitch.tv/r1996ahul/v/462417 ... t=3772shis game starts at 1:02:50

Nvm I played like shit.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by macacoalbino »

It’s ok. It’s very hard to play well when opponent’s build throws you off. A few things I got from that game are:
1. I would try to get used to tc firing units as soon as they go in range of the tc. Ie: put 10 regular vills in, whenever they come in range (and fix the macro behind it)
2. Use the first 2 free uhlans to try and find a stray villager in their base (you’d be surprised by how many people forget a vill who was herding in transition still far from the tc). Also i’d keep them hidden in the fog of war for future raids after your opponent garrisons the vills they were attacking.
3. Talk about herding: you had 2 big boy herds of bison west of your tc which you could have brought in even in age1 (i know the most efficient is to go in transition, but who cares right? You can refine that once you got used enough to herding so you know you can get them under tc really quickly)
4. Hold minutemen for a defensive timing, they will be 10x more efficient if you can time them with a unit shipment. They did kill some jans and all, but you still lost your house and some of the free uhlans, and your eco wasn’t really stoped by those early jans, they were kind of wasted there.
5. I wouldn’t ship 8 bows while aging. I know he had a lot of units and all, but those 8bows weren’t really necessary there and you could wait for 8skirms or 3WW if you waited a bit until you were up. I think it’s ok to click the 8bow shipment in case you really need them to defend an all in, but if it were me playing that game I would cancel as you were almost up anyway and the opponent army was just burning a stable and not just idling all your eco.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Mosx »

Resign
op mechanics, op build order :export: :coin: :ugly: :uglylol: :maniac:

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https://www.twitch.tv/mosxgr
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Shikari »

macacoalbino wrote:It’s ok. It’s very hard to play well when opponent’s build throws you off. A few things I got from that game are:
1. I would try to get used to tc firing units as soon as they go in range of the tc. Ie: put 10 regular vills in, whenever they come in range (and fix the macro behind it)
2. Use the first 2 free uhlans to try and find a stray villager in their base (you’d be surprised by how many people forget a vill who was herding in transition still far from the tc). Also i’d keep them hidden in the fog of war for future raids after your opponent garrisons the vills they were attacking.
3. Talk about herding: you had 2 big boy herds of bison west of your tc which you could have brought in even in age1 (i know the most efficient is to go in transition, but who cares right? You can refine that once you got used enough to herding so you know you can get them under tc really quickly)
4. Hold minutemen for a defensive timing, they will be 10x more efficient if you can time them with a unit shipment. They did kill some jans and all, but you still lost your house and some of the free uhlans, and your eco wasn’t really stoped by those early jans, they were kind of wasted there.
5. I wouldn’t ship 8 bows while aging. I know he had a lot of units and all, but those 8bows weren’t really necessary there and you could wait for 8skirms or 3WW if you waited a bit until you were up. I think it’s ok to click the 8bow shipment in case you really need them to defend an all in, but if it were me playing that game I would cancel as you were almost up anyway and the opponent army was just burning a stable and not just idling all your eco.


1. I always though that you should not tc fire because it is idle time. Like only garrison the low hp vills like the way you do when you are getting raided in the early stages of the game. But i guess vs a super aggro build you should do it.

3. Herding in age 1 as germany vs otto r u sure. I might even age late and it'll be even more tough. But I know I should have herded that one but I didn't noticed it. I usually can am only able to herd two hunts under tc when I am at my utmost top game, just 2nd lt. things really.

Thanks man all of these advices are easy to understand and seems totally doable can I contact you once more regarding the mu. Depending upon how well I executed all these things.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by duckzilla »

Shikari wrote:1. I always though that you should not tc fire because it is idle time. Like only garrison the low hp vills like the way you do when you are getting raided in the early stages of the game. But i guess vs a super aggro build you should do it.

Same here, I also have that tendency not to use tc fire bc idle time = bad time. I now tell myself that the TC does damage worth 4 musketeers (90 vs 92) but is far more difficult to kill. So you don't really lose villager time, but instead you gain unkillable 4 muskets for the relatively low cost of 10 villagers gathering. These villagers would need ~60 seconds to gather enough resources to build 4 musks which are more easily killed by abus and your base would be less well defended in the meantime.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by yemshi »

10v in the TC is much more res than 10v gathering. Don't know where it breaks even but somewhere around 18 or so?
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Shikari »

duckzilla wrote:
Shikari wrote:1. I always though that you should not tc fire because it is idle time. Like only garrison the low hp vills like the way you do when you are getting raided in the early stages of the game. But i guess vs a super aggro build you should do it.

Same here, I also have that tendency not to use tc fire bc idle time = bad time. I now tell myself that the TC does damage worth 4 musketeers (90 vs 92) but is far more difficult to kill. So you don't really lose villager time, but instead you gain unkillable 4 muskets for the relatively low cost of 10 villagers gathering. These villagers would need ~60 seconds to gather enough resources to build 4 musks which are more easily killed by abus and your base would be less well defended in the meantime.

But you try not to use tc fire vs say a cav semi because the purpose of those cav is to idle you. Right? I wonder how many pushes I could have holded all this time though if only I had use tc fire.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by yemshi »

Always use TC fire. Vs cav its trickier because they can just permabell you but always use TC fire.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Goodspeed »

Because the TC is so high value against abus I always naked FF'd (500f age, 3sw, fast age chop some wood and probably send war wagons first) against colonial jan/abus openings. It feels viable because Otto can only run into your base with jans.
Cav semi-FFs are slower and more vulnerable to timings, though less risky in other ways.
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by macacoalbino »

yemshi wrote:10v in the TC is much more res than 10v gathering. Don't know where it breaks even but somewhere around 18 or so?

Depends on the units you're shooting and how many market upgrades you have etc.
My point is that when units just come in line of sight you can already garrison the ammount you need to kill them efficiently before they are in range to kill your vills. Like garrisoning 8 vills to kill puma spearmen etc.. This is just better than waiting for the last second and garrisoning 20 all at once
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by macacoalbino »

Shikari wrote:But you try not to use tc fire vs say a cav semi because the purpose of those cav is to idle you. Right? I wonder how many pushes I could have holded all this time though if only I had use tc fire.

Yeah, that's about it. You can still tc fire them if you want to catch and fight before reinforcements come though. The important thing is to never have more than 10 vills inside
Goodspeed wrote:Because the TC is so high value against abus I always naked FF'd (500f age, 3sw, fast age chop some wood and probably send war wagons first) against colonial jan/abus openings. It feels viable because Otto can only run into your base with jans.
Cav semi-FFs are slower and more vulnerable to timings, though less risky in other ways.

How do you know it's jan abus when you click up? :huh:
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Re: What to do vs Jan abus Colo play as germany.

Post by Goodspeed »

Just always age with the food yolo. 90% chance they're doing a build you can naked FF against, otherwise you chop a bunch of wood and be kinda sad but still ok in most cases :unsure:
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