Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

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No Flag Good ol Ivan
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Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

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Post by Good ol Ivan »

Everyone already knows that villies don't actually gather 0.67 food on mills. They walk. Hence the real base gathering rate is somewhere around ~0.5 food/sec.

But wait, there's more! Most players already know by now that they not only walk around, they also bump into each other! That means the base gathering rate changes depending on the number of villies on the mill too.

So, how much food does a villager actually gather? Let's find out.

I went to scenario editor, and chose to run several tests with 112 villies, all gathering at the same time for 30 minutes straight.
Why 112? Well, the more villies the more accurate the results. 112 is a number which is divisible by 4, 7, and 8. also it is more intuitive to tell the gathering difference if we use the same amount of villies every time. In order to find out the base remaining gathering rate for 5, 6, 9, and 10 villies per mill I ran tests with 90 villies, a close enough number.

The villies were already placed on the mills, and I paused the game just before it started so I could micromanage every single villie, making sure they all started gathering at the same time, exactly at 0:00. I chose spain every single time (assigned base civ for scen editor) and obv every mill/villie had zero upgrades.
While the test ran I just went to cook and do chores and returned right before min 30:00. I always made sure to return on time, so every single test was as similar as possible to the previous ones.

Image


And here are the results:

112 villies, 4 villies per mill: 107967 food
107967/112/30/60 = 0.53555059523 food/sec

90 villies, 5 villies per mill: 86490 food
86490/90/30/60 = 0.53388888888 food/sec

90 villies, 6 villies per mill: 85555 food
85555/90/30/60 = 0.52811728395 food/sec

112 villies, 7 villies per mill: 103066 food
103066/112/30/60 = 0.51124007936 food/sec

112 villies, 8 villies per mill: 100847 food
100847/112/30/60 = 0.50023313492 food/sec

90 villies, 9 villies per mill: 82464 food
82464/90/30/60 = 0.50903703703 food/sec

90 villies, 10 villies per mill: 77683 food
77683/90/30/60 = 0.47952807646 food/sec

I chose not to bother doing tests for 3, 2, and 1 villies per mill because the results for 4 and 5 were almost the exact same, and it really is pointless to have less than 5 villies per mill.

You guys go ahead and make out your own conclusions out of these results.
I might do the exact same test with plantations some time later.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by gamevideo113 »

Amazing testing. What about farms? Have you done any testing on them? I'd also be curious about rice paddies too
Btw i'm surprised that apparently having 9 vills on a mill yelds better results than 8 or 10 vills. Could be just casual?
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

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Post by deleted_user0 »

i wonder how vsynch affects this.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by Good ol Ivan »

I tested rice paddies in the morning and it all points to a fixed 0.5, because villies never walk and never bump into each other. I will do farms next, altho I think same thing applies since I don't really recall watching farm villies walking around in my games.

Also I will do the test on 9 villies again when I get back home to make sure I didn't fuck up writing down the number or something.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by Good ol Ivan »

umeu wrote:i wonder how vsynch affects this.

You think it does?
I never considered it as a factor which could potentially make the commands or the units lagg, least change the map. My aoe3 runs smoothly, and since this was scenario editor there was zero lagg.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by deleted_user0 »

Dunno, running one more test with vsynch on/off, depending on if it was on/off during the first test would tell the difference.

It means like a 5-10 difference for the tp travois, so perhaps it affects other animations too.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by duckzilla »

Nice analysis!
I did something similar (Real base gather rate on Mills/Plantations) with results very close to yours. I also put in some more conclusions and comparisons between fully upgraded late-game ecos (Japanese vs Russian vs Indian). The 12th post also gives an overview over shrines gather rates.

According to your results, each individual villager on a 6/10 mill gathers 10% faster than on an individual villager on a 10/10 mill. That's quite huge over time, especially since all further upgrades apply on this increased base gather rate as well.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by zoom »

Interesting! Should repeat with Paddies, unless you've already confirmed the rates.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by gamevideo113 »

Good ol Ivan wrote:I tested rice paddies in the morning and it all points to a fixed 0.5, because villies never walk and never bump into each other. I will do farms next, altho I think same thing applies since I don't really recall watching farm villies walking around in my games.

Also I will do the test on 9 villies again when I get back home to make sure I didn't fuck up writing down the number or something.

Yes i checked in game and it seems units are standing still in farms as they do in rice paddies. That makes farms not that much worse compared to mills. I always thought the thing about TWC civs (except aztecs) that made thieir lategame so bad was having farms instead of mills, but from this testing it seems clear that the reason for that is that they are straight missing upgrades so that's what makes their farms and plantations suck so bad. Iro with all the upgrades that they can possibly get only have a +120% boost on the base gather rate of farms and 100% for plantations. Sioux are even worse with 110% and 80% i believe. Euro civs all have at least 140% on farms and 180-200% on plantations i believe.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by duckzilla »

gamevideo113 wrote:
Good ol Ivan wrote:I tested rice paddies in the morning and it all points to a fixed 0.5, because villies never walk and never bump into each other. I will do farms next, altho I think same thing applies since I don't really recall watching farm villies walking around in my games.

Also I will do the test on 9 villies again when I get back home to make sure I didn't fuck up writing down the number or something.

Yes i checked in game and it seems units are standing still in farms as they do in rice paddies. That makes farms not that much worse compared to mills. I always thought the thing about TWC civs (except aztecs) that made thieir lategame so bad was having farms instead of mills, but from this testing it seems clear that the reason for that is that they are straight missing upgrades so that's what makes their farms and plantations suck so bad. Iro with all the upgrades that they can possibly get only have a +120% boost on the base gather rate of farms and 100% for plantations. Sioux are even worse with 110% and 80% i believe. Euro civs all have at least 140% on farms and 180-200% on plantations i believe.

Aztecs can actually have one of the highest gather rates for food in the entire game, because they have so many shipments for farms. They can stack up to +200% to reach a gather rate of 1.5f/s. They coin gathering is rather bad though.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by Good ol Ivan »

umeu wrote:Dunno, running one more test with vsynch on/off, depending on if it was on/off during the first test would tell the difference.

It means like a 5-10 difference for the tp travois, so perhaps it affects other animations too.

You were right. There seems to be a very slight difference when you do turn it off.
I ran the exact same test scenario (same civ, same buildings, same amount of absolute villies, same amount of villies allocated per farm and plantation, same vill placement, same starting point, etc.) and indeed there was a slight difference.

Here are my results with Vsynch on
Image

And here Vsynch is off
Image

And no, it wasn't a matter of milliseconds, I reached the results of my first pic 10 seconds ealier with Vsynch off, which is a difference of roughly +0.5% in the gathering rate (!)

I will just stick to posting results with using Vsynch though (results in original post were with Vsynch on, I always have it on for my games too).
Honestly I don't know what to make out of this. Brb turning vsynch off to rank up.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Ok, so having Vsynch off means +0.5% gather rate? That's good to know.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

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Post by Kevsoft »

Keep in mind that vsync doesn't have a effect on gather rates in MP given that it uses dynamic update times that are synced between the players. Also gather rates in general are different between MP and SP due to the double gather bug, though farms have been mostly unaffected.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

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Post by Garja »

Pretty sure the difference (in SP) with vsync on/off is proportional to the difference of fps. So potentially much more than 0.5%.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by Good ol Ivan »

I'm done.

So, just for the hell of it, I tried running the exact same experiment a third time, again with synchv on, just to... I don't even know, compare results a third time.
And there we go, exact same scenario, civ, villies, farms, etc etc... I didn't change a single damn thing. The villie placement was the same and they all started gathering at the same time, too... I fucking swear I changed nothing.
And you know what I got?

Image

At this point I don't even know what to say. I'm so baffled from all these inconsistencies... I'm done testing. It's almost like if this god-forsaken game completely randomized the gather rates, toying with my sanity. Like, should I stop using scenario editor and single player altogether, and proceed to test exclusively online? I don't even know what to do now.
Feel free to run the same experiments I did and share your own results.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Good ol Ivan wrote:I'm so baffled from all these inconsistencies, that I'm completely done testing. Should I only test this stuff online?

Yes, you are going to get very random results outside of multiplayer.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by Good ol Ivan »

EAGLEMUT wrote:
Good ol Ivan wrote:I'm so baffled from all these inconsistencies, that I'm completely done testing. Should I only test this stuff online?

Yes, you are going to get very random results outside of multiplayer.

Why
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by Kevsoft »

Good ol Ivan wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:
Good ol Ivan wrote:I'm so baffled from all these inconsistencies, that I'm completely done testing. Should I only test this stuff online?

Yes, you are going to get very random results outside of multiplayer.

Why


Read through this thread including all the posts: https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?t=17476
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

Post by duckzilla »

I produced my results using multiplayer and was very close to yours. So I don't think that your results are too biased for usage.
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Re: Tests to find the REAL Mill base gathering rates

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Post by Good ol Ivan »

Kevsoft wrote:
Good ol Ivan wrote:
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Why


Read through this thread including all the posts: https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?t=17476


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