Why are Arsonists considered bad?

[randerzbobanderz]

They have 50% RR, 140 Siege attack, 3.0 ROF and a saloon is cheaper than the Art. foundry. Especially vs Civs like China where Falcs don't do a whole lot, but you still may need quick siege, they seem like a solid option.

[Hazza54321]

They’re basically 300c grens which is already a bad unit

[Method_man714]

Because Arsonists often cause the destruction of property or valuable items, which can be upsetting as there is always loss of monetary value.

[dansil92]

They aren't "terrible" but they are easily kited and not particularly useful in most situations. Like grens they are situational. The only matchup i would use them is as india vs russia, but thats like a pr20 strat not a competitive level one

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

Even if you 'wanted' to use arsonists you cant really due to random nature of mercs available in monastry /saloon, unless i'm missing a way to ship them or ship a card so that they can be trained. I imagine that grens are much more cost effective than arsonists and that the arsonist is definitely a merc which would get shredded and picked off by spies.

[duckzilla]

They are just far inferior to grenadiers. A comparison:
Unit: Vet. Grenadier / Arsonist
Cost: 120f 60c / 300 c
HP: 240 / 250
RR: .5 / .5
Dmg: 19.2 / 25
Siege: 64 / 140

Already here, we can see that the Arsonist is worse due to costing twice as much as a simple Grenadier. But in my opinion the biggest flaw of Arsonsists is that they don't profit from the Incendiary Grenades tech in arsenal which gives a whopping + 30% dmg and an additional +1 on splash damage.

Also note that some civs have upgrade cards which affect Grenadiers but not Arsonsists (famously the British, but also Ottomans).


edit: vet gren siege dmg was corrected

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

Also very low hp and regular given their cost. Siege damage is decent but is less important than their lack of HP

[Kaiserklein]

They're just garbage. Bad stats, super expensive, and trash kind of unit (grenadier). Also happens to be bugged on RE, not affected by the improved mercs card. Not much to add

[dietschlander]

Hi Randy

[yemshi]

Waiting for @Dsy to prove us all wrong because arsonists are magically the best unit in the game.

[Hazza54321]

Correct maths doesnt lie!

[5CH3U3R]

All mercenaries need changes. ESOC no not do.
Wait Forgothen Empires in Definitive Edition.

[dansil92]

Improved mercenaries doesn't affect arsonists??? Ouch

[5CH3U3R]

Improved mercenaries doesn't affect arsonists??? Ouch

No have TAG mercenaries.

[Riotcoke]

Improved mercenaries doesn't affect arsonists??? Ouch

No have TAG mercenaries.

On EP they do, so they're effected by improved mercs.

[dansil92]

I think the primary concern with arsonists will always be the low hp. Regular grenadiers, should you choose to invest in them, are absolute tanks and genuinely pretty powerful once they actually start throwing those bombs (i believe the above statistic for the siege damage above is incorrect for a vet gren, it should be around 64 iirc)

Arsonists are basically a glass cannon siege unit that is far too expensive and not nearly as effective as they need to be vs basically anything that moves. The ONLY units they are good against are poorly microed xbows, poorly microed ruskets, poorly microed longbows and vills all bunched up on a coin mine. Not great for a 300 coin unit- even the other glass cannon merc (hackapells) at least has mobility and a good attack vs anything they touch

[Peachrocks]

Yeah, a better question is why are Grenadiers considered bad and thus why are arsonists worse. I mean there's a lot that work against the unit type in general, but those stats in the case of the arsonist are just dreadful.

[dansil92]

Grens are not bad they are difficult to use. In terms of raw stats they are extremely good but the long delay on the throw, combined with their classification as heavy infantry (despite not countering cavalry) and slow speed, aggravated by the need for an artillery foundry, compounded against their need to be upgraded to fortress age, and stacked with their 2 population.... they fall into the "non-competitive" class of units.

Ive seen otto players mix a few in even at tournament levels but they already have a foundry so that particular challenge is overcome, making them more accessible

[gibson]

Even if you 'wanted' to use arsonists you cant really due to random nature of mercs available in monastry /saloon, unless i'm missing a way to ship them or ship a card so that they can be trained. I imagine that grens are much more cost effective than arsonists and that the arsonist is definitely a merc which would get shredded and picked off by spies.

They dont have a merc tag so they actually shit on spies