France vs Otto jan/huss (TP map on RE)?

[Astaroth]

Anyone have advice for this match-up on RE on a TP map?

I played vs a guy who went 2 TP stagecoach with forward rax and stable (he played aggressively, attacking my TP and base, but no all in rush underneath my TC). I planned to do a musk semi but because he started sieging my TP I tried to engage with musks, eventually going 2 rax, but dying painfully. Sure, I probably misplaced, but Idk how much I really could have done.

He had about 20 jans 7 huss at ~8mins in my base. 8 bows or 8 skirm suck vs that, I also would have been housed and it was a low hunt map.

Maybe straight FF would have had a chance? But I doubt it, too much stuff in my base and too much lost infrastructure...

Thoughts?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Musk semi should work fine.
Don't try to defend your TP and 10 musks +mm should hold his timing, then you have goons in age 3.

[Djigit]

Play colonial with fully upgraded cdbs. It's even safer.

[Astaroth]

Thanks guys.

But if I go 4 cdb, 700g (700w), I will prolly only be up at like 8 mins with 10 musks and fast age, right? 10 musk and 6 mm can't hold against 20 Jan 7 huss, though? Also, I will lose houses before probably, so even if I get out 5 goon shipment to kite, he will have much more stuff, 2 TP stagecoach and I won't have a military building and few houses?

[[Armag] diarouga]

10 musks + 6mm will probably kill the 7 huss. Then you get a 5skirm batch and you ship 5 goons and you're fine.

[dansil92]

Market upped cdb > jans
Send pioneers too if you wanna make an otto player scream in frustration

[Rikikipu]

Usually otto players are bad scrub that have very poor skills. I use to try to outplay them and the easiest way until captain rank is to play cav and raid them hard. Also yeah, upgrade your cdbs and stay colonial to defend the rush

[macacoalbino]

Thanks guys.

But if I go 4 cdb, 700g (700w), I will prolly only be up at like 8 mins with 10 musks and fast age, right? 10 musk and 6 mm can't hold against 20 Jan 7 huss, though? Also, I will lose houses before probably, so even if I get out 5 goon shipment to kite, he will have much more stuff, 2 TP stagecoach and I won't have a military building and few houses?

Hide your units behind the base for the moment you pop your shipment with mm. Also make the houses behind tc so if he wants to siege them he is exposed to being poped with 8bow+mm+explorer and cdb (always ship it if you're against that sort of thing then cancel before arriving if you don't end up needing it)

[Kaiserklein]

Basically either musk bow timing or musk semi. Musk semi is the safest, but on maps with very low hunts or on no tp maps, you'd rather just play age 2. Anyway jan huss isn't the right build for otto in this match up.

I'd go 4 cdbs / 700w / 700g musk semi, get 15-20 musks in age 2, train 5 more while aging, then upgrade them upon age up. If you have enough musks left you can ship 2 falcs, else probably 5 goons. If you just go 4 cdbs / 700g I feel like you might lose your musks and not really have a lot to defend once in fortress, but it probably works too anyway.

If you go for the musk bow stuff, you can do 4 cdbs / 700w / (600w) / 8 bows. The problem is if he scouts it he can add abus and you're kinda fucked. So it only works if otto goes for the all in 700g first jan/huss build, in which case he won't have abus until quite late. The build would be 1 rax musks start, add a second rax + 3 houses + 5 bows with 700w, 10 bows + 2 houses with 600w, and push out with 8 bows. Meanwhile training musks whenever you're not training bows of course.
You probably want to skip 600w if it's on no tp so that you don't push out too late. Either way, if you see a foundry try to siege it first. If you can't siege it you need to add cav asap.

[Shikari]

@Kaiserklein why is musk huss bad in this mu. Surely it's better than musk abus cause of cdb range resist. And otto player can do wood then gold for same thing right.

[Luciofrancosi]

You could play age 2 just fine against this!!
Otto has a terrible eco, so you just have to hold and wait until you have more stuff than him to push out!

[Kaiserklein]

@Kaiserklein why is musk huss bad in this mu. Surely it's better than musk abus cause of cdb range resist. And otto player can do wood then gold for same thing right.

Because jan huss means france can just go musk and be fine

[Astaroth]

Thanks guys. I just think it's me sucking too much atm, have no feel for the right timings, when to attack, go back etc. So I think I can defend my TP but then throw away 5 musks due to sudden 4 huss 5 jans, putting me very behind.

[Luciofrancosi]

Thanks guys. I just think it's me sucking too much atm, have no feel for the right timings, when to attack, go back etc. So I think I can defend my TP but then throw away 5 musks due to sudden 4 huss 5 jans, putting me very behind.

We all have these bad moments where you get stuck at something or some MU!! These things come with time!! Just keep doing what you are doing and keep playing the game, eventually you will find a solution for this and get stuck on something else, and the cycle continues!!
I remember big struggles I used to have on this game that are now quite easy to deal with

[Astaroth]

Thanks mate, but it's frustrating because I used to be pretty decent at this game, but that was like 10 years ago (no kidding, like 2008) and back then in school I used to have time to play 5-10 games a day. Now I have a real adult job, live with my gf and can maybe play a game every 2 days, resulting in me not improving haha. Oh well

I feel like my micro, apm, build orders are okay (I also use control groups, hotkeys) but I have no feel for the game, so I don't know any timings and die to them. It doesn't help that I never played France much, but I wanted to start again with a "basic" civ to avoid just doing bot strategies with a civ (eg always China FF).