Iroquois Overview

[gamevideo113]

Yumi don’t give a shit about light cannons, it’s one of the worst anti-infantry artillery in the game. A mix of yumi and yabusame will easily win vs kanya-toma-light cannon. Iro relies on forest prowler in the lategame and without forest prowler with war dance it’s just mediocre. I guess fp vs yumi is kinda even although yumis are more sustainable by japan. Probably you should have infinite 7 mantlets in this MU because otherwise japan is just gonna take better trades, assuming both civs are industrial and with a decent eco. Kanya are ok but nothing special and japan doesn’t need a lot of anticav since yumi dps is already so high, unless the iro player is just going full kanya, at which point japan has other options.

[pecelot]

great, I wish something like that had been included in the original game box with the game I got in 2006

[Superfly47]

Earth Mother dance is great late game. When Iroquois goes age V they do so with politician which gives 20 villagers, allowing them to have 119 villagers. Have 25 go onto Firepit. Switch to Earth Mother for 225 pop limit, quene units to 225 pop, then switch to earth attack dance or fertility (if you need units fast). Once your army is getting below 200, switch to Earth Mother again, quene up 225 and switch back. Keep repeating this throughout the game. This allows Iroquois to have effective army of 106 units while 25 villagers on firepit and 94 on gathering.

Late game Iroquois relies on making cows and sheep for food, not farming. Herdables gather at 2.0. Fulling Mills card boosts by 300% for rate of 8.0. Sheep cost 100f to make and fatten to 300. Ranching card allows cows which cost 80f and fatten to 500f.

Both cows and sheep take about 7.5 minutes to fatten. With selective breeding tech, time to fatten decreased by 25% for about 5.6 minutes. Stockyard card reduces by further 30% for about 3.3 minutes. Iroquois do fatten 25% slower for age 1 and 2, goes to regular rate in age 3. More on http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,32676,0,10

Iroquois have no wood trickle sources and have few upgrades for plantations. Strong herdable gathering compensates for these disadvantages and allows their economy to be strong late game. Once wood runs out then Iroquois has problems.

The disadvantage with herdables is they require an initial investment of food which is a problem on 1v1 maps without initial herdables. If a map has lots of herdables, Iroquois can build farm with travois, once they fatten then send Fulling Mills card. This will give tons of food very quickly, be sure to use some of that for more livestock. This ensures econ will continue to be very strong and takes advantage of Fulling Mills card.

For Japan matchup, Mantlets are big late game. Siege Discipline card makes artillery cost 1 less pop, so Mantlets cost just 1 pop. Have base hp of 500 and rr of 60%. Just put them between Yumi and Forrest Prowlers and they will soak up damage.

[gamevideo113]

Earth Mother dance is great late game. When Iroquois goes age V they do so with politician which gives 20 villagers, allowing them to have 119 villagers. Have 25 go onto Firepit. Switch to Earth Mother for 225 pop limit, quene units to 225 pop, then switch to earth attack dance or fertility (if you need units fast). Once your army is getting below 200, switch to Earth Mother again, quene up 225 and switch back. Keep repeating this throughout the game. This allows Iroquois to have effective army of 106 units while 25 villagers on firepit and 94 on gathering.
This is such a micro intensive task that it's hard to make it pay off, also because whenever you're dancing for pop space you aren't dancing for damage and that's bad. Iro is probably fine with 81 military with war dance.

Late game Iroquois relies on making cows and sheep for food, not farming. Herdables gather at 2.0. Fulling Mills card boosts by 300% for rate of 8.0. Sheep cost 100f to make and fatten to 300. Ranching card allows cows which cost 80f and fatten to 500f.

Both cows and sheep take about 7.5 minutes to fatten. With selective breeding tech, time to fatten decreased by 25% for about 5.6 minutes. Stockyard card reduces by further 30% for about 3.3 minutes. Iroquois do fatten 25% slower for age 1 and 2, goes to regular rate in age 3. More on http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,32676,0,10
First of all native civs have a slower herdable gather rate of 1.25, which means that with fulling mills you'll only get to 5f/s. Also these cards aren't viable in a normal supremacy game, since they take so much to pay off that it's not worth sending them. I assume you're a treaty player, also considering the previous argument about earth mother dance. Probably these mechanics are fine/strong in treaty, but in supremacy they aren't strong enough to be worthwhile

Iroquois have no wood trickle sources and have few upgrades for plantations. Strong herdable gathering compensates for these disadvantages and allows their economy to be strong late game. Once wood runs out then Iroquois has problems.

The disadvantage with herdables is they require an initial investment of food which is a problem on 1v1 maps without initial herdables. If a map has lots of herdables, Iroquois can build farm with travois, once they fatten then send Fulling Mills card. This will give tons of food very quickly, be sure to use some of that for more livestock. This ensures econ will continue to be very strong and takes advantage of Fulling Mills card.
Yeah, again, this investment pays off too late in a supremacy game. You'll lose steam and have less stuff than your opponent early on, which will likely make you lose.

For Japan matchup, Mantlets are big late game. Siege Discipline card makes artillery cost 1 less pop, so Mantlets cost just 1 pop. Have base hp of 500 and rr of 60%. Just put them between Yumi and Forrest Prowlers and they will soak up damage.
Yep i agree mantlets can be really good in this matchup

[gamevideo113]

Added the first build. Will obviously do more in the future. I decided not to start with a standard build like the semi FF because it's less interesting.

[ChiefBigFeather]

I'm quite the beginner with Iro, but I'd like to learn.

There are some questions regarding builds I saw in replays and on Samurai's youtube channel. When is it correct to build a farm with your first Travois? I usually fucked up my builds hard when I tried it, but it also seemingly took a very long time to play off. Is there something I don't get?
What is the best build against Sioux? I really have problems defending against their cav, but that's probably due to me not being good enough with basics like herding. I'd still appreciate inputs!
I somewhat got the grips in the big buttons, but I really have no idea when to build a fire pit. Are there any rules of thump to go by?

Thanks in advance!

[scarm]

Just a general piece of advice, don't do buildorders you see on Samurairevolutions channel. He is mostly doing them very wrong. As for the actual question i unfortunately have no clue :(

[ChiefBigFeather]

Really? In his latest vids he seems to have some help from some high level player. Dunno how good the suggested BOs are though.

[scarm]

He really isnt trying to be competitive and executes most BOs pretty badly since he does not practice them. You are really are better off watching replays by high level players and trying to copy their stuff.

[dansil92]

I'm quite the beginner with Iro, but I'd like to learn.

There are some questions regarding builds I saw in replays and on Samurai's youtube channel. When is it correct to build a farm with your first Travois? I usually fucked up my builds hard when I tried it, but it also seemingly took a very long time to play off. Is there something I don't get?
What is the best build against Sioux? I really have problems defending against their cav, but that's probably due to me not being good enough with basics like herding. I'd still appreciate inputs!
I somewhat got the grips in the big buttons, but I really have no idea when to build a fire pit. Are there any rules of thump to go by?

Thanks in advance!

I'm the coach in those vids. Im not a top player mechanically i just know the game well. If i had the time to practice, maybe someday I'd be a top player but its not a priority right now.

Farm from travois is only on a 300 wood start and livestock map (or planning on getting the tier one food upgrade as a replacement for steel traps). If you start with 200 wood dont do the farm thing except on mongolia with the 1000s of cows. Build a tp, travois is longhouse. No question. If you are on ep you will never have a 300 wood start so just make a longhouse or maybe a market with travois. I'm not sure which of those is meta right now.

Also, idk what your pr is, the builds I've coached him on are more aimed at corporals and sergeants so if you are pr20 or higher you may wish to try alternatives. most of those strats aren't optimised or competitive level, just easy to execute and reliable (like how he shipped 15 bison first in the sioux bow rider vid- sub obtimal, but on re maps and for lower level players not herding or worrying about food is worth the shipment). For that series I've basically just focused on easy to replicate builds.

As Iro vs sioux just do a big button rush there's no real way for a sioux player to defend against 16 Tomas at 5 minutes?
Iro doesn't need a firepit until you are transitioning to farms (travois dance is stupidly cost effective) or to revive chief. Your units are powerful enough without the attack dance.

If you ever wanna chat specifics of Iroquois at the conscript-leut level im happy to coach, but focusing on optimising rather than consistency