French

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Brazil Luciofrancosi
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Re: French

Post by Luciofrancosi »

bepsi wrote:Look, 'higher level' players exclusively play on maps with plenty of safe hunts and mines. At least two safe hunts are needed to pull off a semi and probably three in order to hold timings/gather strength to safely push out. The Achilles heel of semi FF play is to run out of safe res to gather upon reaching age 3, slowly dying to a timing while perma-belled. In conclusion, the semi meta evolved not because players in the past where retards but due to the adoption of a new map pool rewarding such play (while also nerfing all civs with early aggression potential).



I see your point!! But I keep seeing high level players saying that this match up is French favoured on RE patch while on EP is India favoured!!
Even on high hunt maps it takes a huge amount of skill and unit control to be able to deffend a rush like the 10/10 or a Russian rush and on top of that being able to age safely without much iddle time
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Re: French

Post by bepsi »

@Luciofrancosi There is no way France is favoured over India on RE taking the entire map pool into consideration (I couldn't care less about the odds on TP maps with lucky res spawns as it's such a rare occurrence). I agree with you fully that the needed skills to hold a rush is far greater than the rather trivial task of right clicking Sepoys in the general direction of the opponents TC.
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Re: French

Post by Papist »

For lower level players, throwing up a few segments of wall during the transition to age 2 can make a big difference. High level players will adapt, but MS 10/10 bots aren't going to know how to deal with it.
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Re: French

Post by HeadKilla »

Is it just me or is French weak to China? I am not one to say any civ is OP not qualified to support such an argument, but hot damn I cannot hold my own against china with french. Before anyone says I cannot hold my own to any civ, I get that, but China is extremely hard for me. Any tips?
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Re: French

Post by HeadKilla »

Papist wrote:For lower level players, throwing up a few segments of wall during the transition to age 2 can make a big difference. High level players will adapt, but MS 10/10 bots aren't going to know how to deal with it.


I have started to toss up walls. They do work. I am really bad at that thing where you delete the pillar part. I always end up with gaps in the wall in a few of the spots. For sure when I encounter walls, I am confused as my falcs seem slow to take them down like my skirms and goons.
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Re: French

Post by UpMySleeves »

China can be a problem at any level really, don’t make too many skirms if they go cav heavy. When you make walls, don’t stretch them to the max, just get a full segment but smaller than max. I’m not sure how to explain it well, there must be some treaty player that made a video on how to do it.
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Re: French

Post by scarm »

HeadKilla wrote:I have started to toss up walls. They do work. I am really bad at that thing where you delete the pillar part. I always end up with gaps in the wall in a few of the spots. For sure when I encounter walls, I am confused as my falcs seem slow to take them down like my skirms and goons.


You can't stretch them too much. You need to strech them just enough for the part between the pillars to be suitable for a gate, but not to the longest extent they can be apart. Hard to describe hope you get what i mean. But i either way think that deleting pillars is kind off overrated for small walls.
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Re: French

Post by Kawapasaka »

HeadKilla wrote:Is it just me or is French weak to China? I am not one to say any civ is OP not qualified to support such an argument, but hot damn I cannot hold my own against china with french. Before anyone says I cannot hold my own to any civ, I get that, but China is extremely hard for me. Any tips?


It can certainly be tough for France. Try bow-pike rushing vs China doing standard FF stuff imo. Take down the moesbar wonder with pikes and hopefully some vill picks with xbows before they're up with skirms to hold, then follow up to age 3 with a stable in transition and skirm/goon. If you're fast enough you can even save your FB from early fortress pressure and double rax skirms. This works for me at pr26ish level. Just base your reinforcing pike/bow batches off what you're losing and what he's shipping - if you notice his TC fire is focusing all your pikes, make more pikes. If he ships 8 cho-ku, make more xbow. Just don't overmake crappy colonial units once it's clear he's going age 3 - just enough to do some lasting damage.
Should clarify that if you force them to stay age 2 you should transition into more musk/huss (pikes are really only useful for siege here) - but 99% of china players are going to do everything in their power to go age 3.

Also you don't want to ship falconets vs china until late fortress when you have a very solid carded goon mass.
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Re: French

Post by Papist »

In my experience the best way to play against China is to go for a naked FF and open with skirm/goon, then swap out goons for cuirs if he isn't massing civ. I usually find that I age up before China and therefore have a window to mass and pressure him before he assembles his death ball. However, if you make a mistake (even after winning the first few fights) you're probably dead because of how hard China snowballs.
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Re: French

Post by dansil92 »

Honestly, its one of the few matchups to legitimately minimise your skirm production. Chinese cav absolutely dumpsters on skirms and they dont die fast enough to goons unless there is a significant numerical advantage. Goon huss/cuir is just better to minimize your vulnerability to forbidden spamming (or a rattan shipment)

Honestly I'm a big believer in musk huss vs china but as that isnt exactly France's strongpoint, I've yet to find a strong counter to china as france besides early pressure (bow pike being moderately effective).

Im going to assume being stupid and walling with bastion and attempting to just drag the game out to imperial instant cuir spam wouldnt actually be viable, as funny as that would be.

I wonder if there are any map-specific native strats that could be effective, but I am unsure. Inca-mapuche on pampas sierras but no trade route so china isnt as scary anyways...?

Interesting matchup anyways.
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Re: French

Post by Luciofrancosi »

It is a hard match up!!
I still have no clue on how to play that!!
Apart from knowing I need to do some damage either in colonial or early fort
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Re: French

Post by Papist »

I never understood how people could enjoy playing China. There's only one viable build in most matchups and you don't even micro your units most of the time. It's just age, ship units, mass cav, z-move. Where's the enjoyment in that?
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Re: French

Post by deleted_user0 »

It has more viable builds than france or brite. And often you don't mass cav. Most euro civs are simply super boring.
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Re: French

Post by Hazza54321 »

I wouldnt say brits have specific builds. Apart from vc
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Re: French

Post by Riotcoke »

Id honestly say euro civs, with the exception of France, are more interesting than tad or twc civs
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Re: French

Post by Kawapasaka »

Riotcoke wrote:with the exception of France


still salty? :chinese:
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Re: French

Post by Astaroth »

It all depends on what you mean by interesting.

IMO, the Euro civs (at least France, Ger, Brits, probably also Dutch, Spain to a degree) are mostly more versatile in so far as they have more flexibility with regards to their specific builds: They can go for a TP earlier or later, add a stable or not, age up sooner or later, get stagecoach etc.

Compared to that, at least the Asian civs feel a bit more forced into specific BOs and playing styles: China often can't go age2, Japan has mostly club rush/defense and boom/turtle as viable options, India often goes for agra map control and other options are less viable. However, Asian civs are more unique when compared to each other. E.g. France only has a single truly unique military unit and its strats are in a way similar to Brit (but less boomy) and Ger (plus musks, minus free uhlans).
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Re: French

Post by dansil92 »

The asian civs share a few similarities, no 3v, reduced dependence on natural resources, lacking in standard artillery, good with livestock maps, strong on water, but are otherwise very unique.

Warchief civs have very little in common besides stupidly powerful explorers, a stealth unit in fortress age, weak plantations and very powerful colonial anticav. They differentiate from there into their own unique builds and units. I'd say aztec and iro are more interesting than sioux, since they have more viable variety in builds and composition and boomy/rush potential. (Also aztec is very good on water)

Nilla civs are more... well they were the originals and share a lot of units and cards. Dutch and Otto are the outliers, the others play more similarly. Even ignoring civ design just the fact these civs have been around the longest contributes to the wide variety of builds. China meta (even on RE) still isn't optimised- tp stsrt or village or...? Etc. India is fairly optimised but its also the single most one dimensional civ imo (sad considering their sheer number of colonial units. ..)
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Re: French

Post by Riotcoke »

Kawapasaka wrote:
Riotcoke wrote:with the exception of France


still salty? :chinese:

Why would I be salty?
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Re: French

Post by Kawapasaka »

Riotcoke wrote:
Kawapasaka wrote:
Riotcoke wrote:with the exception of France


still salty? :chinese:

Why would I be salty?


[spoiler=ez4france]Image[/spoiler]

Just joshin', but I don't see why you single out France of all the nilla civs when Russia and Botto exists. I guess Otto has some cool FI and Revo strats that can be legit, but come on... Russia...
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Re: French

Post by Riotcoke »

Yeah i only get salty when i lose a game that i should have won, which tends to be quite often with how piss poor my positioning is. Otto has quite a few builds that are interesting, russia can also be interesting but everyone just plays them the same. France on the otherhand is equatable to the missionary position, it's fine and there's nothing wrong with it, but it's just a bit boring.
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Re: French

Post by scarm »

Because France just is the most "Vanilla" Civ i guess. It just does Standard Things in a Standard way, and its civboni (CdB And Cuirassier) don't incentivize tailored buildorders, but just make the standard-stuff stronger by default. What the developers probably intended to be Spain (as in a vanilla civ that gets boni that you don't need to actvely use to reap the benefits) just is france now tbh.
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Re: French

Post by Kawapasaka »

Riotcoke wrote:Yeah i only get salty when i lose a game that i should have won, which tends to be quite often with how piss poor my positioning is. Otto has quite a few builds that are interesting, russia can also be interesting but everyone just plays them the same. France on the otherhand is equatable to the missionary position, it's fine and there's nothing wrong with it, but it's just a bit boring.


People do the same build as Russia in every game, in every MU, because that's what's optimal. In the end it comes down to taste, but in my opinion France's versatility and adaptability makes it more interesting than a civ that does the exact same stuff every game but has some obscure tricks they can pull out once in a blue moon.

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