Lame re water.

India Shikari
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Lame re water.

Post by Shikari »

For the third time. What to do vs water man. I always meet some other brit player with every water upgrade in their deck just playing hugging water no map control and abusing ships. I even make culvins but then he goes industrial and mortar them. This time the map was the map with no tp bugged turkeys extra starting crates and full water. Guy had MORE eco whole game even if he didn't had any map control. He didn't had any base which wasn't near sea at all. I was fr he was brits. It felt stupid to the point I think he cheated but maybe he didn't.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Riotcoke »

You quit.
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India Shikari
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Shikari »

I tried the 3 caravel rush vs these brit player but it doesn't work because they focus on water from the start blindly. They never intend to defend their not near water tc they. They go 2 caravel forst themself a lot of time and make one plus they have a tower so they'll always win if I try to contest water.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by gamevideo113 »

I assume the map you are talking about is hispaniola. Usually, if i resist the urge to quit the game instantly when i end up on this map, i try to go for unstandard strategies. Food is super low, but there is plenty of gold so i usually FF/FI and mass artillery or build a saloon and see if i can get lucky with mercs. You should have some ship to send anyway, just to annoy him and contest water a bit, hoping he overcommits. At least this is what i usually try, but it doesn't always work. The map is simply a giant can of trash.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

On maps like Hispaniola, you can't win vs water. On TP maps you have a chance by taking the route and going for a late fortress/industrial push. Try to apply pressure and keep him from gathering land resources. Every water civilization has a gameplan to unlock their late game combination. The key is finding out what this plan is and formulating your own strategy to win against it. Build important buildings like factories and mills/plantations far away from the water and build lots of walls to prevent raids from galleons.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Shikari »

gamevideo113 wrote:I assume the map you are talking about is hispaniola. Usually, if i resist the urge to quit the game instantly when i end up on this map, i try to go for unstandard strategies. Food is super low, but there is plenty of gold so i usually FF/FI and mass artillery or build a saloon and see if i can get lucky with mercs. You should have some ship to send anyway, just to annoy him and contest water a bit, hoping he overcommits. At least this is what i usually try, but it doesn't always work. The map is simply a giant can of trash.

I don't feel like sending any ship is worth vs the kind of player I am talking about. Guy literally masses ships no matter what. Not making a single unit and just defending shore with ships. I took out his tc in colonial as originally I did the classic double rax bow pike thinking that it would counter this his build since he is going on water he'll be slow and you do bow pike on no tp as fr vs brit anyways but he didn't cared for his base not near water.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by dansil92 »

Sometimes you can get a trade monop win with a stupidly fast fast industrial on hispaniola. Usually you can get up fast enough vs a boomer before they can get monitors. I think iro and aztec are best civs for this (you can just contest water with aztec though) as you can abuse town dance too, but almost any civ can do it
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by gamevideo113 »

Shikari wrote:
gamevideo113 wrote:I assume the map you are talking about is hispaniola. Usually, if i resist the urge to quit the game instantly when i end up on this map, i try to go for unstandard strategies. Food is super low, but there is plenty of gold so i usually FF/FI and mass artillery or build a saloon and see if i can get lucky with mercs. You should have some ship to send anyway, just to annoy him and contest water a bit, hoping he overcommits. At least this is what i usually try, but it doesn't always work. The map is simply a giant can of trash.

I don't feel like sending any ship is worth vs the kind of player I am talking about. Guy literally masses ships no matter what. Not making a single unit and just defending shore with ships. I took out his tc in colonial as originally I did the classic double rax bow pike thinking that it would counter this his build since he is going on water he'll be slow and you do bow pike on no tp as fr vs brit anyways but he didn't cared for his base not near water.

Nah just scout their deck, if they are going full on water just naked FF and see where it takes you.
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Re: Lame re water.

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Post by SoldieR »

Or you could..you know.. fight water just like them. Make caravels, ship them, send upgrade cards, build towers on shore, make pikes to siege docks. You dont need to kill docks with your boats, just camp the fish spots and deny gather. The whales are all in the same spot, so if you hold that you're in a good spot.

Most civs have boat upgrade cards, or you can use advanced dock and aggressive dock. Getting a forward tower, shipping boats and making 5 pike can get his docks down quickly too. Just need to be able to adapt quickly when you see his strat switch.

Best civs to counter water are port, brit, India, japan
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Dsy »

Water is not balanced in this game.
Fishings ships counter naval ships - so civs which can boom better on water autowins on high resource water maps.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Shikari »

Yeah maybe the best thing is to go fortress directly then go full artillery by going 1000w 1000c? And just making goons from 2 stable or something. Maybe having 1000f on shit food map like Hispaniola is a good idea?
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Dsy »

If you play fre vs water civs on hispaniola the best you can do is quit.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Challenger_Marco »

hmm there are not many water players (especially at your level)....just play n win on land.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by tedere12 »

most people are bad on water and you can win really easily if you do basic stuff like caravel rush or contain with ships + outposts.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Shikari »

IAmSoldieR wrote:Or you could..you know.. fight water just like them. Make caravels, ship them, send upgrade cards, build towers on shore, make pikes to siege docks. You dont need to kill docks with your boats, just camp the fish spots and deny gather. The whales are all in the same spot, so if you hold that you're in a good spot.

Most civs have boat upgrade cards, or you can use advanced dock and aggressive dock. Getting a forward tower, shipping boats and making 5 pike can get his docks down quickly too. Just need to be able to adapt quickly when you see his strat switch.

Best civs to counter water are port, brit, India, japan

Maybe you have a gameplay video? And this was not a selected map it's was just fr vs brit on std. Maps and it turns out to be Hispaniola. If both civs goes on water aggresively to the max surely brits would win it no?
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Shikari »

tedere12 wrote:most people are bad on water and you can win really easily if you do basic stuff like caravel rush or contain with ships + outposts.

I've tried this as ger vs brit on great lakes and sagueney. It didn't work. Other guy also send caravel make one caravel has a tower from age up. Plus fishing boats to get into dock for atk.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by SoldieR »

Yes brit is favored, but I believe there is room for outplay especially if it's not super high level. French can make good use out of 400w and possibly get 4 caras out easier. And if stalemated, French can age to 3 faster.

You probably have to play better than them, but a lot of times the water lamers dont often face competition on water, so if you have a good build, you can put a lot of pressure on and throw them off. I'll try to get a video done soon, if I can find some water games to play in QS.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by gamevideo113 »

Fre has a lot less water cards than Brits though. I think you can get an advantage if you go full warships while he is making fishing ships and also warships, but it's a hard MU, especially on low hunts maps like hispaniola. 1000f not worth it with french, just gather berries. Anyway i thinkn goons from one stable and 5-6 falcs can shut down a player on land quite easily if he is committing only to water, at least at our level. Just make sure to be ready when the culvs arrive.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Garja »

What civ are you playing
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by gamevideo113 »

Garja wrote:What civ are you playing

french, he said
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Serbia ShinkuroYukinari
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

Try to sneak a few CDB near his base so you can attack his land eco. If he has no wood he loses
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by rodr_o »

scout the dock, if defensive (behind tc) build 2 ouposts, first outpost(3cdbs) while aging near the whales else near a gold + food patch, 2nd outpost and 1st gold up with 400w or age with tower + 200g.
send 700w* then dock + barracks + native tp**, then send 4 cdbs or 600w for 2nd gold upgrade + 4 boats or 4 cannoes to force idle + vels instead of eco ups, carronade instead of cannoes for 2 upped frigs attack.

*700w dock + native + 3 cannoes may force vels, but then 600w is needed for barracks.
**native tp is better than 2 boats or than 2nd gold up before 600w, 2nd mine up best before 4cdbs.
***Brit will be at least a shipment ahead, so 2vels is bad.

Age up with hussars (no shipment) or fast (shipment), 2nd wood up at some point in fortress.

If 2 Adv Dock or 2 outposts (and 2-3 vels if your dock was scouted) send 1000w and make petards, frig and tc (no natives), attack with 3 frigs or 2 frigs 1 galleon (no vels).
Else (he has 2 docks + 1 outpost or 2 docks + 1-3vels) send frig + frig from dock + unload cav and natives in his side (2 upped frigs attack).
*If 1 dock + outpost + 2vels(bad def), send 2 falcs + musk + cav + 1 culv (natives optional)

Also need Coastal Defenses, Improved WS, 1 Monitor, Improved Buildings, Admiralty in deck + eco cards.
Keep scout alive.
Lame the natives (better with nat combat card + wilderness).

Nat rush works too if he doesnt wall, age up with 500f since is low hunt + caribs are high food, then 700w dock + cannoes and barracks.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Jerimuno »

Don't forget about taking a nat tp and making canoes in these kind of situations
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Kazamkikaz »

rodr_o wrote:scout the dock, if defensive (behind tc) build 2 ouposts, first outpost(3cdbs) while aging near the whales else near a gold + food patch, 2nd outpost and 1st gold up with 400w or age with tower + 200g.
send 700w* then dock + barracks + native tp**, then send 4 cdbs or 600w for 2nd gold upgrade + 4 boats or 4 cannoes to force idle + vels instead of eco ups, carronade instead of cannoes for 2 upped frigs attack.

*700w dock + native + 3 cannoes may force vels, but then 600w is needed for barracks.
**native tp is better than 2 boats or than 2nd gold up before 600w, 2nd mine up best before 4cdbs.
***Brit will be at least a shipment ahead, so 2vels is bad.

Age up with hussars (no shipment) or fast (shipment), 2nd wood up at some point in fortress.

If 2 Adv Dock or 2 outposts (and 2-3 vels if your dock was scouted) send 1000w and make petards, frig and tc (no natives), attack with 3 frigs or 2 frigs 1 galleon (no vels).
Else (he has 2 docks + 1 outpost or 2 docks + 1-3vels) send frig + frig from dock + unload cav and natives in his side (2 upped frigs attack).
*If 1 dock + outpost + 2vels(bad def), send 2 falcs + musk + cav + 1 culv (natives optional)

Also need Coastal Defenses, Improved WS, 1 Monitor, Improved Buildings, Admiralty in deck + eco cards.
Keep scout alive.
Lame the natives (better with nat combat card + wilderness).

Nat rush works too if he doesnt wall, age up with 500f since is low hunt + caribs are high food, then 700w dock + cannoes and barracks.

Sorry mate i didnt and probably shikari didnt understand a single word u just said.
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Re: Lame re water.

Post by Dsy »

I like the If-else structure, Its like programming an AI... :D

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