Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

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Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by ChiefBigFeather »

Dear Community,

I'm just getting back into the game and haven't played all that much. So far I tried the Brits, but I'd like to try something new. Brits seem kind of macro heavy to me, as you always need extra clicks when doing the housing boom. I prefer to play aggressively and would like to macro as little/easy as possible. It would also be cool if the new civ I pick is strong in both the ESOC and vanilla patch.

After searching a little I think Iroquois might be just right for what I seek. Is this a decent pick?

After looking at some replays, the current deck meta for land Iroquois seems to be:
[spoiler=deck]age 1:
3 villagers
high chief

age 2:
5 villagers
600 wood
600 coin
6 tomahawks
4 kanya horsemen
infantry attack
infantry hp
conservative tactics
7 aennas

age 3:
400w/f/c
8 prowlers
infantry combat
5 musket riders
6 kanya horsemen
cav hp
agrarian ways
5 renegade french

age 4:
4 light cannons
repeatable 500w/f/c[/spoiler]

There is one more slot in that deck. One card I didn't take is the town center/10 settlers card because I could only find it on some decks. Any input on potential deck selection would be very welcome!

Some more things for getting started: I watched the hotkey video by Veni and started setting up my hotkeys. For some reason the find explorer hotkey doesn't also select him, like all the other find hotkeys do. I think I will set unit production buildings to hotkeys 5-9, leaving the rest for unit control groups. Aside from units and buildings, any advice for important hotkeys? Attack-move seems pretty important to me for example.

Thanks in advance for any input on those matters!

Regards,

Chief
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by Riotcoke »

If you're playing on the base game i wouldn't play Iroquois because people simply won't play with you as they're the most op civ on RE. Something like france or germany is always good to start with as their macro is relatively simple and their playstyle rather standard.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by jesus3 »

France is the most basic civ without as many unique quirks, fairly standard indeed. Also their potential to apply early pressure is higher than Germany's since they have Musketeers available to them and can get a high number of Musk/Hus out early while still maintaining an awesome eco due to their Coureur des Bois- shipments
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by HeadKilla »

Hello Big Feather and welcome back to AOE3. I have been back for almost 2 months now after a very long break from all games. I am not very good, but if you ever want to play against someone on a pretty low level, feel free to hit me up in game or send me a PM.

I do suggest France as they seem to have a few options open to them and are a little more forgiving to noobs than some other civs.

***EDIT
Also, I have found this section of the forum to be the most useful in getting a loose grip on this game and each civ:
https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9169

****EDIT
also beware of BO's and Strats going out of date and are no longer viable. I spent a good weeks worth of games perfecting a BO and strat that was only good up until a few years ago and is not good in the TP meta or on the EP patch. Speaking of that, you also need to pay special attention to if the BO or strat you are going for was written for the RE or EP version of the game. I discovered some Shipment Cards have been moved to diff ages in EP so those strats work well there but do not work on RE because the same shipments are not available at the same age.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by Kawapasaka »

Whatever you do, don't start with Japan.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by gamevideo113 »

I'd suggest you try a bit of everything. You might find out that you like a playstile you didn't expect to like or maybe a civ will seem more fun/appealing or synergize with you better than others.
Iro isn't particularly easy to start with since they have some "awkward details" (mixed crates, tomas are a bit awkward, having to keep WC with army all the time, different politician compared to euro civs etc.), i think you might find them a bit confusing, at times, but if you like them, then by all means just go for it - they are a fun, versatile civ. Their macro is very easy in the colonial age, but harder than average in the fortress age.
France can give you a general sense of what AoE3 feels like, so you should definitely try it. Other civs have more specific strengths or weaknesses, and are a bit less well rounded than France.
I'll leave the link to a thread i opened a while ago, discussing something similar to this.
https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php ... it=improve

Also: @Riotcoke I think most people on the official patch aren't aware about how much iro can be abused, especially at a beginner level. Also because, unlike with some other civs, abusing iro might take slightly more skill/game knowledge. It's definitely harder to pull off a decent semi-ff with iro and microing fp+riders than just spamming jans/sepoy and sitting under the enemy tc without giving a damn and sending 3 huss/4 sowars to shut down any attempt of defense.

Important hotkeys:
Attack move
Find idle villager
Control groups for units and buildings
Hotkeys for buildings and units
"Select all units of one kind" might be useful, but using control groups is preferable.
Find idle military (not essential)
Press ALT to check unit HP

Cards to add to your Iro deck:
4 vills or 6 aenna in the colonial age (if you play on EP, 800 resources)
900 resources or 5 kanya or 9 tomahawks or 5 mantlets or cavalry attack in the fortress age
16 tomahawks or infinite 7 mantlets or 1800 resources (kinda redundant) in the in the industrial age
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by scarm »

@gamevideo113 Well i mean the way most people abuse Iro is just the early rushing, even though FF and Semi FF Builds are certainly just as abusable on RE. Also i think you are referencing the Otto Jan rush which even on RE is mostly the wrong way to abuse otto, not to say the ff is much harder but still.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by gamevideo113 »

scarm wrote:@gamevideo113 Well i mean the way most people abuse Iro is just the early rushing, even though FF and Semi FF Builds are certainly just as abusable on RE. Also i think you are referencing the Otto Jan rush which even on RE is mostly the wrong way to abuse otto, not to say the ff is much harder but still.

Well you get my point. I just think iro is harder to abuse, for how hard abusing a civ can be. What's broken about iro is their speed. What's broken about india/otto, at low level, is their unit's stats. Taking advantage of speed requires more skill than taking advantage of something you have in any stage of the game.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by scarm »

Meh i don't think they really are harder, Otto FF and iro rush are both pretty easy to execute and both purely rely on speed.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by dansil92 »

I think on re before pr20+ level it is france and germany and japan that people wont play against , not iro. Most noobs can't play iro well and since games are usually 40+ minutes (lots of walls, poor macro, focused on aging, less military and crate shipments in deck, little to no raiding) france and japan are probably better, and germany is just annoying to play against. Iro and spain were my first two civs and i learned so much from my iro time, about 2 res macro early, 3 res macro in fortress, etc.
Also @ChiefBigFeather 5 kanya would be the normal age 3 card to add, but 5 mantlets is extremely useful too (4000+ ranged hp, lots of siege vs an early waller/agra fort/ forward base etc.). They are slow though. If you want some iro builds that arent rushing i have quite a few simple ones that are consistent and won't just get you pested lol
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by ChiefBigFeather »

Thank you very much everyone for your input!

I'm not very experienced with AoE III, but I played some other rts quite excessively. I know my playstyle really well: I dislike moving and managing workers, I like moving and managing units. If I can, I will attack early to keep ecoing to a minimum. Afaik France is strong in fortress, that seems a little late to me.

Why are Iroquois op in the official patch? I didn't find many changes to Iroquois in the ESOC patch notes.

Is there are guide to common abbreviations? FF is fast fortress, but aside from that I can't read most of them.

Where can I find ESOC games? Last time I checked I only found official patch games on the official servers. Do ESOC players use gameranger? Or do I have to do something else? Where can I find ESOC versions of the official maps (I've read somewhere that ESOC maps have better spawns of hunts and mines)?
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by scarm »

If you enjoy low eco aggro playstyles, Spain or Otto might be some civs to try out.

They start with 200w or something less, which means they can't get an guarantued trading post in age 1, which means they will get their strong age 2 unit shipments way slower.

I Think Goodspeeds Guide (You will find it on the Strategy Wall) has a glossar with the most common abbreviations.

ESOC Games are just played on ESO, but mostly on European afternoon/evening, If you join the discord channel you can check games being hosted on ESOC.

The Maps are integrated wth the ESOC patch but can also be downloaded seperately, check the bar on the left for the sections "ESOC Patch" or "ESOC Maps" respectively.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by gamevideo113 »

Iroquois is OP in the official patch because a trading post in age 1 means you'll have a shipment ready to send after you age with the messenger (shorter aging time). Basically you can be in the opponent's base with some army before they even reach the colonial age.
Other low eco, aggressive civs are sioux, spain, ottomans (as scarm said) and india to an extent. The most fun out of these are probably Iro and Sioux because they are more versatile. Sioux are actually overall somewhat balanced so it's surely a civ you should try. Their eco management is very easy too.
Spain goes fast fortress in 90% of their games, and Ottomans have quite a few options but they are a bit overpowered, so abusing their OP stuff might get boring after a while
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by dansil92 »

Ep removing iro's "free" tradepost in age one basically balanced the civ. Its really only their speed that is scar-they are actually quite weak in colonial without a tradepost map
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by scarm »

I agree that Sioux might be a good civ for him, but tbf they aren't really more versatile than Spain.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by gamevideo113 »

scarm wrote:I agree that Sioux might be a good civ for him, but tbf they aren't really more versatile than Spain.

At least sioux can semi-ff... Spain can't even semi-ff and their colonial is quite sad compared to the sioux colonial, because if you don't go III right away you'll have a hard time doing it later (you'll be stuck in colonial where you get outscaled/the opponent ages, and you're toast), and also sioux have better shipments to send and a better eco bonus.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by scarm »

Sioux on RE (Which he will be playing on for the first time) is literally only spam Bow Riders and Harass.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by gamevideo113 »

scarm wrote:Sioux on RE (Which he will be playing on for the first time) is literally only spam Bow Riders and Harass.

That's one of the many ways you can play them. Probably the easier to win with. Not the only one though.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by tedere12 »

you should play ottomans, here's why:
Very versatile civ, you can do age2 rush, fast fortress strategies, fast industrial, TP boom in age2, fish boom, anything really.
Very easy to play, tc trains villagers automatically, you mainly train janissaries, so you don't need to macro and micro really well to play them, it's easy to be on point
Easy to rank up, ottomans are strong if you play them well and you will rank up quickly.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by ChiefBigFeather »

Thank you again for all the helpful input!

Some of the comments sound like Iroquois might not be a good pick. Is there something I need to be aware of (except that I need good builds to hit the timings)?
How's Industrial/Imperial for Iro/Sioux? Do they just loose or can they compete at a slight disadvantage?
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by scarm »

Iroquois is a fantastic pick, mostly you should be aware that they are quite op on the normal patch and some people might just refuse to play vs. you with them. Imperial mostly does not matter, you dont reach that point. Iro and Sioux fall off in Eco in Industrial due to no factories, so you defo would prefer to close out games before that, but i guess sioux at least get a free upgrade on their dog soldiers.
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by gamevideo113 »

Early industrial is great for those civs because their unit upgrades cost a lot less than the unit upgrades of other civs. If you happen to age to industrial, make sure to use the initial upgrade momentum to take a military advantage (axe rider+wakina rifle for sioux, and tomahawks+light cannons for iro are good early industrial combos for these civs). Also, if you take factories out of the equation just for a moment, the economies of these civs aren't even too terrible because their lack of upgrades won't show a lot in 1v1 since even civs like france won't include a lot of economic cards in their 1v1 decks. Still, the fact that these civs have a worse economy is undeniable and it will show sooner or later, so try not to waste your army. A nice plus is that they don't need the explorer to build town centers so whenever you see that the game is becoming slow and boomy, you should try to drop a couple of TCs and boom a bit with the fertility dance at the firepit. You'll get to 99 vills very quickly.
Iro also has a very smooth transition to farms and plantation because they can get them from travoises, basically spending an equivalent of 200w for each of those buildings. You also have some decent spammable crates from the homecity which help quite a bit (not as much as a factory, but still alright).

Sioux has probably the worst eco in the game, but i don't think their industrial is particularly bad. You have other tools to make up for your lackluster eco (raiding with bow rider, fire dance with axe riders to take down expensive buildings like plantations or factories). In long term Industrial i think sioux should also dance for dog soldiers since villagers at the firepit generating dog soldiers are more efficient than villagers on plantations generating gold. Of course you're also gonna need some coin to produce other kinds of units and you're also gonna need to use the firepit for the war/fire dance, but since dog soldiers auto-upgrade imo it's a good thing to do.

In imperial these civs are definitely worse than asian/european civs, but you basically never get to imperial in 1v1 anyway.

I probably gave even too many details. What you actually need to remember is that:
-you have a weak eco but a strong army - try to take good trades
-using your firepit is vital in the late stages of the game with these civs
-you should fight for natural resources as much as you can, especially with sioux
-remember to use big buttons.
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019 Who (nationality) rape ?
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by evilcheadar »

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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by Blastkiller »

ChiefBigFeather wrote:Dear Community,

I'm just getting back into the game and haven't played all that much. So far I tried the Brits, but I'd like to try something new. Brits seem kind of macro heavy to me, as you always need extra clicks when doing the housing boom. I prefer to play aggressively and would like to macro as little/easy as possible. It would also be cool if the new civ I pick is strong in both the ESOC and vanilla patch.

After searching a little I think Iroquois might be just right for what I seek. Is this a decent pick?

After looking at some replays, the current deck meta for land Iroquois seems to be:
deck
There is one more slot in that deck. One card I didn't take is the town center/10 settlers card because I could only find it on some decks. Any input on potential deck selection would be very welcome!

Some more things for getting started: I watched the hotkey video by Veni and started setting up my hotkeys. For some reason the find explorer hotkey doesn't also select him, like all the other find hotkeys do. I think I will set unit production buildings to hotkeys 5-9, leaving the rest for unit control groups. Aside from units and buildings, any advice for important hotkeys? Attack-move seems pretty important to me for example.

Thanks in advance for any input on those matters!

Regards,

Chief
if you want to improve in a civ do like me, I read guides I see video of pro or I go on esocpatch and I play with some captain or major and I register the games at the end of the game tell me what I'm wrong and how I can improve and then I also give a glance to the game I played + I copy the deck and for me this technique worked, I learned new strategies. The civs that you could certainly handle well are the French the Japanese and if you know how to micrare you can also use Ottomans or Indians, but in truth even Russia is not very difficult I left to play with Russia when I was a sergeant and I arrived at 1 lieutenant now using them most of the time
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Re: Which faction to pick for my playstyle and other starting tips

Post by Mitoe »

Iroquois and Ottomans sound like the civs for you. Possibly Russia or Aztec as well.

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