China vs Japan

[Nicius]

I played recently vs Japan as China.
My questions are the following;
- does the matchup favors Japan?
- How can i beat Japan when they do the standard play?
- do i need a specific deck for this MU or is the standard deck good enough?

[tedere12]

I'd say is slightly china favored. Japan usually camps in base so you need to build a fb and clear the map from all shrines, usually you outmass and win, in case they go to age4 you have to age up yourself and use flying crows.

[gamevideo113]

I think standard play should be the way to go. Maybe even greedier with a no 700c FF.

[Kawapasaka]

I'm not even sure if China has to siege shrines rather than just going for an early fortress big dick right click.

[tedere12]

I'm not even sure if China has to siege shrines rather than just going for an early fortress big dick right click.

if japan walls and goes for yumi it's impossible to engage

[[Armag] diarouga]

Fair MU.
FF and kill the shrines, you should outmass eventually.

[dansil92]

You'll probably need the hand mortar shipment if you spot early walls, otherwise china has a *decent* esrly fortress advantage. Forbidden army is very very good vs yumi

[Astaroth]

Doesn't seem so easy as Japan from my experience, at least if Japan turtles.

As China: can prolly just FF, scout what he does, if its yumis, mass cav will own, VS Nagi you might eventually need Manchu. VS Ashi that arq card can be handy.

Early fortress you should have a much bigger mass anyway. If he keeps camping, you can siege with handmortars. But don't overcommit, just hold map control, destroy him if he leaves his base and siege shrines all over with a couple Changdaos or cav.

I think for China, the hardest Jap strat would probably mass yumi to hold the initial push, then switch into ashi/Nagi with upgrades, go age4 and meanwhile ashi or Nagi raid around (although China cav might counter that). Japan might also slow push with yumis, but that seems just too risky VS China cav.

China could also go FI, but I feel that gives Japan too much time.

[Garja]

Fair MU probably, but you need to actually do something specific as Japan. Standard eco play is beaten by standard China FF play.

[Qosashvili93]

Fair MU.
FF and kill the shrines, you should outmass eventually.

And what to do as japs side in this mu?

[n0el]

good question

[gibson]

The same thing as China. Get to fortress ASAP and and shipments

[deleted_user]

Extremely china favored. Semi as china with 9 pike 8 bow 700g/7 steppe ff, or stay colonial longer with 300e for Russian cossacks. In age 3 just mass cav with intervention musks and 10 arqs to DPS ashi/club. There's not a lot Japan can do, especially after double faced armor is in. Ideally, china waits to take the big fight until this upgrade is sent.

Here's that build against standard Japan winning vs. suboptimal age 2 Raph, when china still had cover mode monk:

[Astaroth]

What does Japan best do here? If you turtle, you can probably only stay behind your walls, make more walls, tech, slowly expand over the map, possibly with fully upgraded ashi Nagi once you reach that point.

Maybe Japan could also just club rush China, potentially with Nagis, although that might die to the straight FF with 8 ckn.

[Riotcoke]

Extremely china favored. Semi as china with 9 pike 8 bow 700g/7 steppe ff, or stay colonial longer with 300e for Russian cossacks. In age 3 just mass cav with intervention musks and 10 arqs to DPS ashi/club. There's not a lot Japan can do, especially after double faced armor is in. Ideally, china waits to take the big fight until this upgrade is sent.

Here's that build against standard Japan winning vs. suboptimal age 2 Raph, when china still had cover mode monk:

Ego post tbh

[Mosx]

I would say Japan favoured in that mu but China is a strong civ u have to deal with good mass in age3

[deleted_user]

Extremely china favored. Semi as china with 9 pike 8 bow 700g/7 steppe ff, or stay colonial longer with 300e for Russian cossacks. In age 3 just mass cav with intervention musks and 10 arqs to DPS ashi/club. There's not a lot Japan can do, especially after double faced armor is in. Ideally, china waits to take the big fight until this upgrade is sent.

Here's that build against standard Japan winning vs. suboptimal age 2 Raph, when china still had cover mode monk:

Ego post tbh

CMC > SKG

[Lukas_L99]

Extremely china favored. Semi as china with 9 pike 8 bow 700g/7 steppe ff, or stay colonial longer with 300e for Russian cossacks. In age 3 just mass cav with intervention musks and 10 arqs to DPS ashi/club. There's not a lot Japan can do, especially after double faced armor is in. Ideally, china waits to take the big fight until this upgrade is sent.

Here's that build against standard Japan winning vs. suboptimal age 2 Raph, when china still had cover mode monk:

If raph reacted properly to the offensive village he wouldve crushed this

[deleted_user]

Extremely china favored. Semi as china with 9 pike 8 bow 700g/7 steppe ff, or stay colonial longer with 300e for Russian cossacks. In age 3 just mass cav with intervention musks and 10 arqs to DPS ashi/club. There's not a lot Japan can do, especially after double faced armor is in. Ideally, china waits to take the big fight until this upgrade is sent.

Here's that build against standard Japan winning vs. suboptimal age 2 Raph, when china still had cover mode monk:

If raph reacted properly to the offensive village he wouldve crushed this

Losing a village to be up an age isn't really an issue though. And china can get good trades early on.

[Lukas_L99]

You don't only lose a village, you also sent 2 unit shipments for basically nothing while he wouldve needed to only send one (5 yumis) with nagis and can idle you after.

[deleted_user]

You don't only lose a village, you also sent 2 unit shipments for basically nothing while he wouldve needed to only send one (5 yumis) with nagis and can idle you after.

I don't see how 5 yumi 5 nagi beats 8 bow 9 pike and explorer and disciples, and optional (i.e. good) 7 steppe. Then summer palace comes.

Jap is super slow, and if he isn't super slow, you're age 3 anyways.

Jap shipping units hurts their follow up a lot, but it doesn't really hurt China's on a tp map.

[Hazza54321]

You tell that noob, callen!

[deleted_user]

Yeeee let's play this MU @Lukas_L99 im china

[Lukas_L99]

You don't only lose a village, you also sent 2 unit shipments for basically nothing while he wouldve needed to only send one (5 yumis) with nagis and can idle you after.

I don't see how 5 yumi 5 nagi beats 8 bow 9 pike and explorer and disciples, and optional (i.e. good) 7 steppe. Then summer palace comes.

Jap is super slow, and if he isn't super slow, you're age 3 anyways.

Jap shipping units hurts their follow up a lot, but it doesn't really hurt China's on a tp map.

Don't forget the 2 explorers with 7 besteiros which come in pretty soon AND more nagis, pretty sure 8 ckn/9 pike can work vs standard play with ashi start or something, but not really if japs reacts properly.

[deleted_user]

Maybe vs your china