Vet musks > goons

Australia Kawapasaka
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Vet musks > goons

Post by Kawapasaka »

This is mainly about French, some recent-ish games got me thinking about this - basically, situations where making musks as your primary anti-cav is better than dragoons. This first came to mind against Japan, where I'll often get destroyed by Ashi/Nagi; all the Jap player has to do is snare with the Nagis for long enough to get a significant enough ashi > skirm numerical advantage, then it's an easy clean-up of the entire skirm mass.
In another game where I was Japan, I got destroyed trying to Ashi/Nagi against a French player going musk/skirm with about a 70:30 ratio. Ashi/Nagi felt much more impotent here than it typically is for me against skirm goon, especially with melee musks nullifying the Nagi's high range resist. And if the Jap player does decide to add Yumis, they perform disproportionately well against light cavalry compared to skirms, and obviously CIR is unavailable to them.

For the exact same reason, I also wonder if this is a better composition choice against Brits as well.

The synergy of the team inf attack card is also nice here.

Thoughts?
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Re: Vet musks > goons

Post by Kaiserklein »

With good micro, goons are just a much better anti cav than musks, because the ranged attack has a multiplier.
If you're sure japs are gonna be stuck in age 2 though, musk + falcs is a very solid composition, and musk + skirms is also fine. Problem being, if japs reach fortress and gets flaming arrows, your falcs become useless and you're left with musks vs fortress jap stuff.
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Re: Vet musks > goons

Post by tedere12 »

goons are infinitely better as anticav.
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Re: Vet musks > goons

Post by Astaroth »

Goons are better vs cav raids, too.

That said, if your micro isn't amazing, I feel a large infantry mass can often be better in practice. Skirm/goon only beats musk/huss with decent micro.

Musks are better as a meatshield and can also guard your cannons better.
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Vet musks > goons

Post by Dsy »

Surprisingly havent seen the answer ive found.
Goons are better for the reason: When you age up first, your opponent will outmass you. At this point making slow units like musks is a suicide. Free resource for opponent to pick up. Goons can live just running away.

When you are not outmassed musks just might be better.
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Re: Vet musks > goons

Post by princeofkabul »

musks are great dealing damage to infrastructure and dps down villagers at faster rate. against cav and combat in general goons are better though. However it's not bad idea to have musketeers or heavy infantry type in general mixed even in your fortress composition. can prove quite useful against huge cav masses and cav flanks (what people should do more often to pin down someone who is doing pure skirm goon)
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Australia Kawapasaka
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Re: Vet musks > goons

Post by Kawapasaka »

Dsy wrote:Surprisingly havent seen the answer ive found.
Goons are better for the reason: When you age up first, your opponent will outmass you. At this point making slow units like musks is a suicide. Free resource for opponent to pick up. Goons can live just running away.

When you are not outmassed musks just might be better.
Oh, well I was talking about Japan also being in age 3. Against any civ committing to age 2 musk-cannon-cav is the best.
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China Zeke
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Re: Vet musks > goons

Post by Zeke »

As France, musk semi + 2 falc is fine against japan. After losing ur falc, u can switch to cuira + skrim mix with several goons
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Re: Vet musks > goons

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Zeke wrote:As France, musk semi + 2 falc is fine against japan. After losing ur falc, u can switch to cuira + skrim mix with several goons
After losing your falcs, your musks are totally useless.
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Re: Vet musks > goons

Post by Zeke »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Zeke wrote:As France, musk semi + 2 falc is fine against japan. After losing ur falc, u can switch to cuira + skrim mix with several goons
After losing your falcs, your musks are totally useless.
That's true, so u need to push at a correct time and do enough damage. I won't really make more musk in the fortress, but the remaining musk can help siege and provide a little bit anti-cav power in early fortress

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