How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
Hey eso-community, how do I defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese (13 vil age up, 3 Hussars shipped, more Husars added in) in a French mirror?
I faced it a few times and was always idled pretty hard: I aged with 14 vils. I did a stable start, but didn't get enough Hus out to defend against the incoming Hus reinforcements.
Would it be better to start with a rax and to produce some pikes? Or to wall up a little bit? Is there an optimal way to play against this? (I guess there is one ) Do you have a recorded game where somebody is defending in the right way?
Thank you for helping me out :-)
I faced it a few times and was always idled pretty hard: I aged with 14 vils. I did a stable start, but didn't get enough Hus out to defend against the incoming Hus reinforcements.
Would it be better to start with a rax and to produce some pikes? Or to wall up a little bit? Is there an optimal way to play against this? (I guess there is one ) Do you have a recorded game where somebody is defending in the right way?
Thank you for helping me out :-)
look wrote:I Opened the TAD today
it looks like i was in paradise
- Sargsyan
- Jaeger
- Posts: 3372
- Joined: Dec 18, 2017
- ESO: lamergamer
- Location: North Macedonia
- Clan: c0ns
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
start musk, as long as you dont lose any cdb you should be ahead, even with some idle time
krichk wrote:For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge Challenger_Marco
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
Castete played yesterday on his stream that exactly MU. Microing cdbs helped a lot. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/503324556?t=00h06m49s
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
- giveuanxiety
- Advanced Player
- Posts: 1988
- Joined: Feb 27, 2015
- ESO: GiveUAnxiety
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
you can open huss, use your exploer in the fight, make sure you can mm when needed. maximize tc fire and dont over kill huss with tc fire. vill punch
Lasol wrote: just Saw a YouTube video with giveyouanexiaty. He Said check youre stove, if you Want to improve youre aoe3 skills.
WHAT does check your stove means? And how do you do it?
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
Yeah but not a great example since i was going naked ff, just open huss yourself and get ready to minuteman if other guy commits.BrookG wrote:Castete played yesterday on his stream that exactly MU. Microing cdbs helped a lot. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/503324556?t=00h06m49s
Can also use cdbs to fight
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
What struck out from that game was the good use of tc fire and upgraded cdbs. Although the opponent either mismacro'ed or misjudged how much they should push you.Lecastete wrote:Yeah but not a great example since i was going naked ff, just open huss yourself and get ready to minuteman if other guy commits.BrookG wrote:Castete played yesterday on his stream that exactly MU. Microing cdbs helped a lot. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/503324556?t=00h06m49s
Can also use cdbs to fight
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
"mr.brookg go buy jeans and goto the club with somppuli" - Princeofkabul, July 2018
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
If you herd very well, 5 hussar and TC fire can defend a 8 hussar attack, and you won't lose much eco.
If the herds are a bit far away, you may try a musket start (on RE maps for example). Musk do nothing in fortress age, but hussars don't work either.
If the herds are a bit far away, you may try a musket start (on RE maps for example). Musk do nothing in fortress age, but hussars don't work either.
-
- ESOC Pro Team
- Posts: 1116
- Joined: Jan 25, 2019
- Location: Wales (new, south)
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
Send 3 huss yourself, make mosks.
-
- Crossbow
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Dec 11, 2017
- ESO: 112122150251
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
Obviously send pioneer first XD
-
- Skirmisher
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Aug 20, 2015
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
idk why musk semi + cannnon in fortress wouldnt be goodfei123456 wrote:If you herd very well, 5 hussar and TC fire can defend a 8 hussar attack, and you won't lose much eco.
If the herds are a bit far away, you may try a musket start (on RE maps for example). Musk do nothing in fortress age, but hussars don't work either.
-Deep down I know it's me, and deep down I know you are so jealous :).- Sir_Musket 2018
- thomasgreen6
- Lancer
- Posts: 548
- Joined: Jun 24, 2015
- ESO: Thomasgreen6
- Location: UK
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
If you age with 14 vills dont open huss vs 3huss strat, its terrible imo, thats how so many fr mirror ended in 6-7min.
Because there is no way you make a full batch of huss to defend and prob not have ress for minutemen, if the 3huss start is doing properly he should have 8huss in your base around 5:45, you dont have a single huss out at this time and you are already idle, then he can keep spamming 5huss batch forever under your tc and gg out bye.
Its mainly that powerful on food start, so, be sure to age2 with 13vills on this start.
If he can age on other start with 13vills, well thats prob because he got very good tresor and its a bit unlucky for you, i think best adaptation would be to build your rax with 2-3 vills asap so you can complete a full batch of musq in time (at 5:45 or before) and defend it while having the 4cdb shipement and a decent eco advantage with that.
Because there is no way you make a full batch of huss to defend and prob not have ress for minutemen, if the 3huss start is doing properly he should have 8huss in your base around 5:45, you dont have a single huss out at this time and you are already idle, then he can keep spamming 5huss batch forever under your tc and gg out bye.
Its mainly that powerful on food start, so, be sure to age2 with 13vills on this start.
If he can age on other start with 13vills, well thats prob because he got very good tresor and its a bit unlucky for you, i think best adaptation would be to build your rax with 2-3 vills asap so you can complete a full batch of musq in time (at 5:45 or before) and defend it while having the 4cdb shipement and a decent eco advantage with that.
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
theory crafting on how to win vs unbeatable strat xD
- harcha
- Gendarme
- Posts: 5136
- Joined: Jul 2, 2015
- ESO: hatamoto_samurai
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
obv this is only countered by a 12/10 double pike opening, the superior strat
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
- Kickass_OP
- Lancer
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Dec 29, 2015
- ESO: Kickass
- Location: Ceará - Brasil
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
Order 3 huss too! surprise him.
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
- ESO: diarouga
- Location: France
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
Just start musk and you'll be fine with a better eco.
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
Thank you all! I really appreciate your input. I try to sum up a little bit (perhaps this is useful for other players):
1) Making musks seems reasonable as an adaption if you aged with 14 vills. Build the rax with 2-3 vills asap, since you want to get your units out before 5:45, because the 8 Hus timing hits around that time. You still ship 4 vills as first age II shipment to get a "a decent eco advantage" (See @flontier 's post). Musk start is preferable when your hunts are "a bit far away" (See @fei123456 's post).
2) Making hus can also work when you herded very well (See @fei123456 's post again). But then I guess it gets more technical: vill punching, tc-focus fire ("maximize tc fire and dont over kill huss with tc fire"), fighting with your explorer, having the ressources for minutemen (all the things @giveuanxiety mentioned in his post), because you won't get a lot of hus out.
3) Another option seems to be to send 3 hus as first card age II to defend: "Order 3 huss too! surprise him." (@Kickass_OP). Perhaps a "Pike rush" (@Zutazuta) could also work.
Perhaps three more questions:
Would it be reasonable to delay steel traps, so you can get more units out to defend?
Can a specific building placement help you defending?
Someone wants to practice with me?
1) Making musks seems reasonable as an adaption if you aged with 14 vills. Build the rax with 2-3 vills asap, since you want to get your units out before 5:45, because the 8 Hus timing hits around that time. You still ship 4 vills as first age II shipment to get a "a decent eco advantage" (See @flontier 's post). Musk start is preferable when your hunts are "a bit far away" (See @fei123456 's post).
2) Making hus can also work when you herded very well (See @fei123456 's post again). But then I guess it gets more technical: vill punching, tc-focus fire ("maximize tc fire and dont over kill huss with tc fire"), fighting with your explorer, having the ressources for minutemen (all the things @giveuanxiety mentioned in his post), because you won't get a lot of hus out.
3) Another option seems to be to send 3 hus as first card age II to defend: "Order 3 huss too! surprise him." (@Kickass_OP). Perhaps a "Pike rush" (@Zutazuta) could also work.
Perhaps three more questions:
Would it be reasonable to delay steel traps, so you can get more units out to defend?
Can a specific building placement help you defending?
Someone wants to practice with me?
look wrote:I Opened the TAD today
it looks like i was in paradise
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
- ESO: diarouga
- Location: France
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
2) You can probably hold with a huss start but don't expect to get a BO advantage. It will probably be equal even if you defend very well so I wouldn't recommand this. I'd say always start with a rax when you age with 14 while your opponent ages 13. Even if he goes 4v first you're not really in a bad spot as you can add a stable and go for a 15 musk/5huss timing so you'll trade your musks.rnmrtzk wrote:Thank you all! I really appreciate your input. I try to sum up a little bit (perhaps this is useful for other players):
1) Making musks seems reasonable as an adaption if you aged with 14 vills. Build the rax with 2-3 vills asap, since you want to get your units out before 5:45, because the 8 Hus timing hits around that time. You still ship 4 vills as first age II shipment to get a "a decent eco advantage" (See @flontier 's post). Musk start is preferable when your hunts are "a bit far away" (See @fei123456 's post).
2) Making hus can also work when you herded very well (See @fei123456 's post again). But then I guess it gets more technical: vill punching, tc-focus fire ("maximize tc fire and dont over kill huss with tc fire"), fighting with your explorer, having the ressources for minutemen (all the things @giveuanxiety mentioned in his post), because you won't get a lot of hus out.
3) Another option seems to be to send 3 hus as first card age II to defend: "Order 3 huss too! surprise him." (@Kickass_OP). Perhaps a "Pike rush" (@Zutazuta) could also work.
Perhaps three more questions:
Would it be reasonable to delay steel traps, so you can get more units out to defend?
Can a specific building placement help you defending?
Someone wants to practice with me?
3) They were both trolling lol. Sending 3huss first is awful as you won't get an advantage if he goes 3huss, even if you play well, and you'll fall behind if he goes 13v age up with 4v first. Pike rush is ofc awful vs France.
Conclusion : Always start with a rax when you age with 14 while your opponent ages 13.
Other questions :
Don't skip steel traps, you'll have enough resources for a 5musk batch.
Of course building placement helps but BO is more important.
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
@[Armag] diarouga thanks for your advice!
look wrote:I Opened the TAD today
it looks like i was in paradise
- harcha
- Gendarme
- Posts: 5136
- Joined: Jul 2, 2015
- ESO: hatamoto_samurai
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
its always good to have some knowledge of more defensive civs to understand how building placement can be very significant. then this skill will be useful in all kinds of situations
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 10278
- Joined: Jun 6, 2015
- Location: Paris
- GameRanger ID: 5529322
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
It's actually surprisngly hard to hold if you're up 14 while your opponent goes 12/10 or 13 up. So if you see they're up way earlier than you, and expect 3 huss, you should probably just open musks or pikes. You're gonna have to micro your cdbs and maybe mm. Tbh aging 13 is just a huge advantage in that mu, because if you start inf and he doesn't ship 3 huss, you're behind, but if you start huss and he goes 3 huss, you might get idled forever.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
- chronique
- Advanced Player
- Posts: 2060
- Joined: Jul 4, 2015
- ESO: poissondu44
- Location: France
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
Some player age up with 12/10 cdb??? Never see that in hight level.
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 10278
- Joined: Jun 6, 2015
- Location: Paris
- GameRanger ID: 5529322
Re: How to defend against the 3-Hussar-Cheese in a French mirror?
It works quite well if you get a food treasure and a 400f 200w start
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests