I've been using CM a fair bit, mainly vs Russia and Aztec, and I really don't like it. Always feels like the aggressor can be happy just sitting back and maybe timing push after I age instead of streaming units in. So my question is; are there any good ways to semi FF vs these civs or is CM a necessity?
The main problem I find with unit shipments is that once 7 Steppes are gone you get perma-idled by superior RI that Chokus cant match at all. Same deal with Iro rushes (but CM is worthless vs Iro anyway ) and even xbow-pike from France and Ger.
Alternatives to CM as China
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Re: Alternatives to CM as China
It is great and worth using vs Russia, Aztec and bow pike. If they go back you get the mm hp bonus.Kawapasaka wrote:I've been using CM a fair bit, mainly vs Russia and Aztec, and I really don't like it. Always feels like the aggressor can be happy just sitting back and maybe timing push after I age instead of streaming units in. So my question is; are there any good ways to semi FF vs these civs or is CM a necessity?
The main problem I find with unit shipments is that once 7 Steppes are gone you get perma-idled by superior RI that Chokus cant match at all. Same deal with Iro rushes (but CM is worthless vs Iro anyway ) and even xbow-pike from France and Ger.
Re: Alternatives to CM as China
Add the 10 rattan into your deck, it works wonders alongside a duck squad or whatever
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Re: Alternatives to CM as China
Choks outrange strelets. I've had success with a longer semi shipping 300e after the steppes and allying with Russia, you can get like 2 batches of Cossacks from there. Aging off 700c as like 4th or 5th card.
No idea vs Aztec, mandarin duck squad might be nice to ship in a semi ff build. Or just 8 bow 700g use halb minutes vs coyo and hero + disciples vs mace.
But I think your china has eclipsed mine
Of course the 3x unit shipment strat can catch a greedy Russia/Aztec player off guard and kill the fb outright.
No idea vs Aztec, mandarin duck squad might be nice to ship in a semi ff build. Or just 8 bow 700g use halb minutes vs coyo and hero + disciples vs mace.
But I think your china has eclipsed mine
Of course the 3x unit shipment strat can catch a greedy Russia/Aztec player off guard and kill the fb outright.
Re: Alternatives to CM as China
Against a lot of rushes/aggressive playstyles you can just defend in age 2 and then eventually age behind it.
Something like 700w 8 bow 9 pike 700c can give you a pretty big mass that is difficult to push into as long as you remain in your base while also giving you time to age. You don't have to age on that 4th card either, though. Most of the time if China is massing units in age 2 another civ will not be able to break them, so you can just continue massing until you feel you have an opportunity to try to age and just take it. The trick with this sort of build is to mix crates into your build rather than unit shipments.
But like Callen mentioned it's also very possible to just straight up timing push the blockhouse or warhut and kill it in age 2. Staying Colonial is also not as bad with China as people say it is in general, although you shouldn't expect to end the game in age 2. You can just get an advantage, maybe take back map control, and then age behind it.
Something like 700w 8 bow 9 pike 700c can give you a pretty big mass that is difficult to push into as long as you remain in your base while also giving you time to age. You don't have to age on that 4th card either, though. Most of the time if China is massing units in age 2 another civ will not be able to break them, so you can just continue massing until you feel you have an opportunity to try to age and just take it. The trick with this sort of build is to mix crates into your build rather than unit shipments.
But like Callen mentioned it's also very possible to just straight up timing push the blockhouse or warhut and kill it in age 2. Staying Colonial is also not as bad with China as people say it is in general, although you shouldn't expect to end the game in age 2. You can just get an advantage, maybe take back map control, and then age behind it.
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Re: Alternatives to CM as China
The issue with China colonial is the lack of real cav so you can't deal with falcs if your opponent ages.
Re: Alternatives to CM as China
How dare you!
Make Chu-Steppe army, delete Chuks and ship 7 Steppe. You now have the counter to every single possible composition.
Make Chu-Steppe army, delete Chuks and ship 7 Steppe. You now have the counter to every single possible composition.
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Re: Alternatives to CM as China
Yeah staying in colonial is not terrible due to how good chuks eventually get with the card upgrade and brit consulate, however you only ever get 1 scary cav switch consisting of 7 steppe, 4+4 cossack, 10 rattans and some extra standard army. After that you can forget about cav.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: Alternatives to CM as China
10 rattan is basically the best cav you get in colonial, and your anticav is fairly lacklustre as well... keshiks are cost effective but nearly impossible to mass and have 0 ability to body block. China's entire colonial army has low damage low hp and very high multipliers making them quite vulnerable to tech switches, or getting caught out.
Ckn lose to xbows but perform far better vs heavy infantry than xbows ever could hope to
Steppe are garbage vs other cav or heavy infantry but exceed a cossack when they make contact with skirms
Keshiks have absurd dps per pop and per cost against cav but without the ability to kite or tank they are just suck
Etc.
I really like what mitoe said, its not a long term thing but china can do a bit in colonial, better than their reputation
Ckn lose to xbows but perform far better vs heavy infantry than xbows ever could hope to
Steppe are garbage vs other cav or heavy infantry but exceed a cossack when they make contact with skirms
Keshiks have absurd dps per pop and per cost against cav but without the ability to kite or tank they are just suck
Etc.
I really like what mitoe said, its not a long term thing but china can do a bit in colonial, better than their reputation
Re: Alternatives to CM as China
disciple rushKawapasaka wrote:I've been using CM a fair bit, mainly vs Russia and Aztec, and I really don't like it. Always feels like the aggressor can be happy just sitting back and maybe timing push after I age instead of streaming units in. So my question is; are there any good ways to semi FF vs these civs or is CM a necessity?
The main problem I find with unit shipments is that once 7 Steppes are gone you get perma-idled by superior RI that Chokus cant match at all. Same deal with Iro rushes (but CM is worthless vs Iro anyway ) and even xbow-pike from France and Ger.
mad cuz bad
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