Spain vs French

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Germany Graf Singh
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Spain vs French

Post by Graf Singh »

How to play this MU on re (or ep)?
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France chronique
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by chronique »

Every top play will tel you "go ff". Usually it's ff vs ff (or semi ff) with a boring falc wars skirm goon cuir vs skirm rodo lancer. This mu is better for spain on ep than RE (still fr favour imo, not everybody are agree with that however) but the ff aggro is the best why on RE becouse of no hunt and no spanish gold(ff aggro mean age up 15 vili with tower, 700 gold 700 wood 8 pik age up with 8 pik).

You can plays with tp line on map with 3 or more tp.
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Singapore Thrar
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by Thrar »

It's not a common matchup since not many people seem to play Spain.

From the few times I've played it around 1st Lt level, I think Spain is usually proactive in deciding what strategy they go for, while France responds to what is happening. France wins the long game due to better eco, so it's on Spain to make something happen, either by taking the trade route or by making a push.

Some examples of what I've seen:
  • Spain goes for ATP with stagecoach, France tries to stop them either with musk/huss or naked FF into a quick push with musks and 2 falcs.
  • Spain goes for musk/huss, France does the same. Whoever ages first without falling behind too far will be ahead.
  • Spain goes for naked FF into an early fortress push with a forward tower, a ton of pikes/rods, some muskets, 2 falcs, and lancers soon after. France goes for naked or semi-ff and needs to hold the push to win.
The naked FF into early fortress push is the most common scenario I think. I'm not sure what the best response is for France, whether naked FF, cav semi, or musk semi. I don't think all-out colonial is viable in response because the Spanish push too hard to hold in colonial.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by Astaroth »

For Spain:

Probably best to go atp stagecoach if there are enough TPs. Then camp the front TP+tower and mass units. Imo kinda hard for France to deal with.

If there arent enough TPs, I'm not sure tbh. Prolly depends on the map and hunts etc. Might be able to contain if his hunts are bad, otherwise you prolly have to yolo all in aggro FF.

As France:

I feel age2 is too risky. Semi FF with musks doesnt seem that useful - might not get the tower down if he goes super fast (piro) FF and then youre kinda fucked with 8:30ish age3 time and measly muskets.

Best bet imo is to straight FF. Then either mass goons asap or make a few musks after clicking up. If youre confident you can hold and have a good micro, full goon with 5 goons first age3 shipment can work well. If you like to play it safe and are sure he will yolo aggro you, you can go: small wall im front of TC, send 2 falcs first in age3, upgrade cdb, make musks while aging.

Then when he rushes in early with like 10 musk 5 dog 4 huss 2 falc and 5 lancer, 5 skirm soon after, you have like 10 musk, cdb, 2 falc MM, 5 goon on the way and 5 almost trained, plus TC fire, which is a win.
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France chronique
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by chronique »

musk semi is ok if you kill the fb tower, in other way naked ff is safe in pretty all situation. Play age 2 is not realy an option vs falc (i have experimented that a lot in spain mirror and my win rate are something like 0% :p but i have still hope)
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Re: Spain vs French

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Post by Hazza54321 »

Aggro ff, spanish gold and tp boom with and without atp are your options.
Aggro ff is 700g 700w (8 pike or 5v, i prefer 5v) age pikes never age huss if aggro ffing and make musks and ship falcs first. His only shipment to counter that is 5 goon or 2 falcs by which time u have enough melee shit to kill his falcs with pikes rods dogs etc.

Spanish gold is 700g 700w 5v spanish gold slightly forward tower but not anal tower. And just mass skirm rod huss or just skirm rod and ship falcs.
Tp boom without atp is for maps with a low stagecoach like of lets say 2/3 tps (tassili kamchatka manchuria baja ) normal ff (700g 700w 5v) but 1kwood first into stagecoach train 5 rods 5 dogs in transition then skirms.

Atp is probably my least favourite strat but you kinda have to do it on 4/5tp maps. Theres 2 variations. Age tower 700w 700g into colonial or stagecoach +ff. or 500f age up with 700g and ff
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by chronique »

I'am pretty sure you can ff stagecoach without 1000 wood.

If you start with 200 wood you can chope 100 w, take one tp first, and send 300 wood after 3 vilis. That's mean 2 tp age 1 +100 w (eazy stagecoach after that). I found this kind of build worked very well.

I have never see the 500f age up.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by yurashic »

chronique wrote:I'am pretty sure you can ff stagecoach without 1000 wood.

If you start with 200 wood you can chope 100 w, take one tp first, and send 300 wood after 3 vilis. That's mean 2 tp age 1 +100 w (eazy stagecoach after that). I found this kind of build worked very well.

I have never see the 500f age up.
500 f age up is useful if you do atp+chop 200 w for stagecoach upon age up, age 20/20 vill and use tps to get 300 gold+send 700 gold, Ryan used to do that a lot.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by n0el »

Hazza54321 wrote:Aggro ff, spanish gold and tp boom with and without atp are your options.
Aggro ff is 700g 700w (8 pike or 5v, i prefer 5v) age pikes never age huss if aggro ffing and make musks and ship falcs first. His only shipment to counter that is 5 goon or 2 falcs by which time u have enough melee shit to kill his falcs with pikes rods dogs etc.

Spanish gold is 700g 700w 5v spanish gold slightly forward tower but not anal tower. And just mass skirm rod huss or just skirm rod and ship falcs.
Tp boom without atp is for maps with a low stagecoach like of lets say 2/3 tps (tassili kamchatka manchuria baja ) normal ff (700g 700w 5v) but 1kwood first into stagecoach train 5 rods 5 dogs in transition then skirms.

Atp is probably my least favourite strat but you kinda have to do it on 4/5tp maps. Theres 2 variations. Age tower 700w 700g into colonial or stagecoach +ff. or 500f age up with 700g and ff
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by Kaiserklein »

Imo aggro ff shouldn't work, but yeah spanish gold and/or stagecoach are good in this mu
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by chronique »

yurashic wrote: 500 f age up is useful if you do atp+chop 200 w for stagecoach upon age up, age 20/20 vill and use tps to get 300 gold+send 700 gold, Ryan used to do that a lot.
Never see that build, It's look slow but maybe.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by _H2O »

20/20 is a 3 to stage coach age up and you can train Huss in transition so you actually have a nice army still.

It’s still 700 gold 700 wood. So you age like one minute slower but have 3+ atp stagecoach.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

_H2O wrote:20/20 is a 3 to stage coach age up and you can train Huss in transition so you actually have a nice army still.

It’s still 700 gold 700 wood. So you age like one minute slower but have 3+ atp stagecoach.
The issue is that you will give stagecoach to France.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by chronique »

There is some rec of this build? I think give one tp stagecoach if you have 3 of them is still worth it.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by _H2O »

If France fights you for stagecoach in age 2 you can also fight and it’s a better situation than just ffing with less eco and no skirm shipments.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

_H2O wrote:If France fights you for stagecoach in age 2 you can also fight and it’s a better situation than just ffing with less eco and no skirm shipments.
I mean if France gets 1 TP while you only get 2.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by _H2O »

Yeah then you go proxy rax in transition and make 5 musk 5 bow. 700 wood 700 gold and maybe you age on 21 vils
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by Hazza54321 »

Surely spain gets shatnon in colonial wars
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by HeadKilla »

Whoa, 3 legends of the game helping us newbs out. Thanks dudes.

EDIT: oh and Kaiser also.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by chronique »

HeadKilla wrote:Whoa, 3 legends of the game helping us newbs out. Thanks dudes.

EDIT: oh and Kaiser also.
Grunt is the true and only legend !
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by Hazza54321 »

Lol u forgot garja
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by chronique »

Garja is still here so is not a true legend.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by Kaiserklein »

Hazza54321 wrote:Surely spain gets shatnon in colonial wars
From the games I've played vs colonial atp spain, it's actually not that clear. Either the extra shipments from tps or the extra eco from stagecoach makes up for spain being a bit weaker. Spain probably just doesn't want to be stuck in colonial for too long, but an extended semi is fine.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by _H2O »

Time stalls out frances shipments in fort which you want because their fort shipments are better than yours.
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Re: Spain vs French

Post by chronique »

But its more eazy for french to reach age 3 after some age2 skirmish.

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