Germany vs Spain

[Ghost_Imperator]

I really need your help, guys.
I am a medium player on Germany, so I think I can fight with almost all civilizations except some civs. I have a serious problem playing against Spain FF. I do not really know what I should do against this strat, seriously. My opponent simply up to Fortress with pikes and then send 2 falconets and 12 pikemen and goes to smash me down.

So what should I do vs this? Semi or maybe naked FF and sending BR to destroy falconets?
Thanks in advance:)

[deleted_user]

Can you naked ff and go war wagons? I feel like BR would take too long to gather for and ship.

Alternatively you can dop cheese. At least that will kill the forward tower and delay his timing by like 20 seconds. Dop cheese works well for instance vs piroshiki's FF with a good surround.

[Kawapasaka]

BR is good if he goes rods, WW probably better otherwise because range.
Oh and always go for the fastest naked FF unless you're going to kill his tower because you'll never slow Spain's age-up down.

[Ghost_Imperator]

I thought about WW, but no doubt BR would be better, right?

[Ghost_Imperator]

Yeah, I have already made sure that I cannot do anything serious to stop the Spanish FF ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[dansil92]

Yeah, I have already made sure that I can not do something serious to stop the Spanish FF ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Spain has always been an excellent counter to germany, so don't feel too bad. Rodeleros are too fast to be kiteable by war wagons, and tear down uhlans with a vengeance. Add in a couple of falcs, and its rough for germany's small military roster and expensive units. I agree with the above statement, dopp rush/pike rush or potentially a native rush, are your best bets. Sieging down the tower slows reinforcements and delays the initial timing, and can give you enough momentum to pick off each shipment as it arrives

[Kaiserklein]

All in ff isn't really a problem, you just ff yourself and hold with wws basically. I can detail the builds if you need.

What can be tougher to deal with as germany is skirm+rod+2 falcs contain (plus the occasional lancer shipment). It's very hard to beat that unit composition when you can't ship falcs yourself and have fake goons and fake cav

[bepsi]

All in ff isn't really a problem, you just ff yourself and hold with wws basically. I can detail the builds if you need.

What can be tougher to deal with as germany is skirm+rod+2 falcs contain (plus the occasional lancer shipment). It's very hard to beat that unit composition when you can't ship falcs yourself and have fake goons and fake cav

Please flesh out the builds in detail.

[Ghost_Imperator]

Yes Kaiser, if you describe this build it’ll be excellent. Thank you.

[Sargsyan]

700w 700g 3ww should work i think

[Sargsyan]

700g 700w 3ww rather

[Ghost_Imperator]

700w 700g 3ww should work i think

But what do we need to send 700 w as the first shipment in colo instead of 700 g for?

[Sargsyan]

700g 700w 3ww rather

@Ghost_Imperator
you need the wood for housing and a stable. it will also help to send your next shipment as soon as possible

[Ghost_Imperator]

@Sargsyan may I build second TP too?

[Sargsyan]

that i don't know, you should aim to not get housed as your shipments are too pop heavy

[bepsi]

3 sw, 700 g makes for a really fast ff while also saving a shipment upon age up. 2 sw plus 3-4 vills on wood during transition for housing. MusketJr did this build vs BSOP in a German mirror and went heavy on ww. It's fast enough to counter doppel pressure and should prob work vs a Spanish ff as well.

[chronique]

Spain has always been an excellent counter to germany, so don't feel too bad.

Lol not at all, german rect spain hardly, one of the worst spain mu. Just need ff (3settler gathering your age up, send 700w after, and you are basiccly age berfore 8 min whit huge eco). Spam ww, if you have more than 6 ww you have basicly won becouse, what can do pik-falc-mousket vs ww .

Also, you can doppel-hulan the front base, and age up after, also i am pretty sure you can ff 9 BR and shit on all spain unit (cause you need a ton of skirm to deal with br, and br rect 100% of mili spain shipement).

There are to many way for german, the true question is "how spain can beat german"

edit: why somepeaple want send 700 gold when 3 sw have the same income than 700 gold .

The build is realy eazy, just age up normal (17 vili with tp or market), make tp or market in transition, send 3 sw, go steel strap, make all your sw on gold, rest on food, send 700w. You are age 3 arround 7.30 (but kaiser can do in 7.15 ) with basicly a shipement, send 3 WW, train 5WW and you have 38 military pop at 8min30.

[[Armag] diarouga]

A good german should beat Spain quite easily.

[Hazza54321]

someone should make the thread "spain vs german" a the answer is quite simple, just resign or pull a G

[Ghost_Imperator]

A good german should beat Spain quite easily.

ApparentIy I am not «good» :(

[chronique]

@Ghost_Imperator I think is more becouse you do a couple of mistake and spain are really good at capitalise on that. But do what i said and you will be fine :) .

[Ghost_Imperator]

@Ghost_Imperator I think is more becouse you do a couple of mistake and spain are really good at capitalise on that. But do what i said and you will be fine :) .

Yeah. I suppose I play like I play because I often make couple of mistakes that can be sometimes even horrible :( Well, I will try to play as you advised :)

[Astaroth]

Essentially what has already been said:

Regular/fast FF (1 tp, market, send 3 SW, 700g, 700w), stable behind TC, send 3 WW first age 3 shipment, make WW from stable. If he pushes with falcs, snipe them with WW, if he attacks with pikes, go back and kite them. WWs beat everything he has aside from skirms - but you get free uhlans, two ski shipments, jaegers.

If he pushes early, you should win with WW, free uhlans and MM. If he waits, mass WW skirm and upgrade uhlans.

[Kaiserklein]

Well if we're talking about RE, then sure, germany shits on spain. On EP, I still believe it's a close match up. Quite similar to fr vs spain actually (fr gets less units, but they get falcs which are huge in that mu, and cuirs are actually useful vs spain unlike uhlans). It's all about abusing rods and containing while greeding a bit (either with a small stagecoach or with spanish gold). All in ff is just terrible in that mu though.


Anyway, as germany I wouldn't try any kind of dop uhlan stuff. If spain ffs fast enough it just won't work. You basically just ff, unless you scout spain is doing some weird age 2 stuff maybe. The go-to build is: get either a TP or a market with hunting dogs in age 1, depending on the crates. Get the other one while aging, and placer mines. Don't chop any extra wood, that's important. From 400w age up, get steel traps and 2 houses, nothing else. Ship 3 SW and just gather everything for your age up, follow with 700w. Open with wws in fortress usually. You should be up around 7:20-30 if you macro well.
On a no tp map, you can do the same build, but without 700w after 3 SW (so that you have a shipment in fortress). You can start 1000w if spain is not aggressive.

If you get an early TP on a wood start, you can also go for 3 sw / 700g, as 700g comes in early enough for you to age up with it. It makes you a bit faster and helps you save your gold in base, but at the cost of not having infrastructures.


You can check this vid to get a better idea of how to do it:
Game 1 is the no tp ff (very similar to the tp ff anyway). Game 3 is the 3 SW / 700g ff.

[Ghost_Imperator]

Well if we're talking about RE, then sure, germany shits on spain. On EP, I still believe it's a close match up. Quite similar to fr vs spain actually (fr gets less units, but they get falcs which are huge in that mu, and cuirs are actually useful vs spain unlike uhlans). It's all about abusing rods and containing while greeding a bit (either with a small stagecoach or with spanish gold). All in ff is just terrible in that mu though.


Anyway, as germany I wouldn't try any kind of dop uhlan stuff. If spain ffs fast enough it just won't work. You basically just ff, unless you scout spain is doing some weird age 2 stuff maybe. The go-to build is: get either a TP or a market with hunting dogs in age 1, depending on the crates. Get the other one while aging, and placer mines. Don't chop any extra wood, that's important. From 400w age up, get steel traps and 2 houses, nothing else. Ship 3 SW and just gather everything for your age up, follow with 700w. Open with wws in fortress usually. You should be up around 7:20-30 if you macro well.
On a no tp map, you can do the same build, but without 700w after 3 SW (so that you have a shipment in fortress). You can start 1000w if spain is not aggressive.

If you get an early TP on a wood start, you can also go for 3 sw / 700g, as 700g comes in early enough for you to age up with it. It makes you a bit faster and helps you save your gold in base, but at the cost of not having infrastructures.


You can check this vid to get a better idea of how to do it:
Game 1 is the no tp ff (very similar to the tp ff anyway). Game 3 is the 3 SW / 700g ff.

Thanks for explanation a lot, @Kaiserklein . Well, I will try to do this as good as possible.