otto ff tower

[chronique]

Some ppl think than its too strong, so i realy want know what option each civ have vs and if it's realy too strong.

Also, i want more rec vs that.

[RefluxSemantic]

I've never beaten it.

I don't think it's too strong though, I just suck.

[deleted_user0]

Imagine, when pros from other RTS games return to aoe3 after DE is out, and they all realize they're going to get pr 40 in 3 days by learning tower FF. Despite never playing the game before.
Billions of maps with tp line and no tc radius. Oh boy.

Ep8 babe

[knusch]

i wouldnt even go that far that it is simply too strong, but its dumb easy to execute. it takes u literally 5apm - most bot civ since 2008

[Guigs]

It's not overpowered, just easy to execute and harder to defend

[chronique]

Its how otto work to me (and i am agree) you can ff tower, rush, revolt, with same deck and 12.37 apm and be pr 35 with only that. But its not my question, my question is "can we counter tower ff quite convincincly".

[Darwin_]

Otto feels stronger than it actually is because it's so easy to play.

[bwinner]

Its how otto work to me (and i am agree) you can ff tower, rush, revolt, with same deck and 12.37 apm and be pr 35 with only that. But its not my question, my question is "can we counter tower ff quite convincincly".

depends with which civ, sometimes it's just the build to go for (like vs spain), sometimes it's not (like sioux can counter it with ff into 5 rr for instance). It's like france 5 huss semi in a mirror or many other builds for instance, I don't think it can be countered no matter the MU.
But no it's not unbeatable overall if that's the question.
Also funny that somppu says it's too ez and op but still loses with otto otto in tourney.
Btw it needs to be mentionned that it's rare that the falcs timming wins in itself on ep, follow up is very important and you need to do the right thing. It was easier on re when the right thing was 1kg/mams, but it's almost never the case now (which is good in my opinion)

[Lunatic_Fringe]

I've beaten the Otto ff with Japan age 2. That was on New England though, so it was easy to get in his base and kill what Otto had before 2 falcs come in.

[chronique]

Idk, i have a great winrate recently vs that build as spain (witout ffing) and i have the feeling than every civ who can semi ff can deal with. Make 10 mousket, kill the tower, age. You gain a lot of time by killing the tower (slowdown the 4 cav and every shipement), but maybe i am wrong.

[[Armag] diarouga]

It is overpowered in some MUs yea. Some civs just cannot beat it.
Furthermore, it's too strong on 4-5 TP maps because Otto can take the TP line and outboom the other civs.

I overall agree with bwinner : the 2 falc timing rarely kills the opponent (although it's fucking hard to hold in some MUs), but the follow up is too strong.
I believe that tower ff is stronger on the EP than it was on the RE. The mam timing was lame for sure, but you could wall/pull vills/outmicro and if you could hold it it was gg.
Now Otto has a follow up (which is good from a design perspective, and that's why mosque got buffed) and it can actually outboom the other civs, which is a balance issue.

And on top the balance issue, another issue is that it's way too easy to play, and skill should be rewarded.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Idk, i have a great winrate recently vs that build as spain (witout ffing) and i have the feeling than every civ who can semi ff can deal with. Make 10 mousket, kill the tower, age. You gain a lot of time by killing the tower (slowdown the 4 cav and every shipement), but maybe i am wrong.

That's because Spain is actually one of the best civs against Otto.

[chronique]

That's because Spain is actually one of the best civs against Otto.

I play basicly the same way with fr (semi mousket and mousket cuir behind). But the way i play vs that looks not specific to spain, brit can, jap can, india can, so i don't understand why spain are suppose to be better.

[[Armag] diarouga]

That's because Spain is actually one of the best civs against Otto.

I play basicly the same way with fr (semi mousket and mousket cuir behind). But the way i play vs that looks not specific to spain, brit can, jap can, india can, so i don't understand why spain are suppose to be better.

That's because France is also a rather good civ against Otto (both France and Spain lose to otto on 4+ TP maps though).
And no, Brit, Jap and India semi ff are much much slower than Spain.

[chronique]

You don't need to boom vs otto so, for exemple, 10 mousket semi from brit (700w/700g) are not suppose to be slower than other semi. I want try that with brit

[[Armag] diarouga]

You don't need to boom vs otto so, for exemple, 10 mousket semi from brit (700w/700g) are not suppose to be slower than other semi. I want try that with brit

I obviously did try it.
1. It's very slow, so you should die to the 2falc timing if you do that.
2. It's low eco so Otto will outboom eventually if the map has TPs. That's actually the issue, now Otto has eco options and he can outboom you if you go low eco. This MU is probably harder on EP than it is on the RE.
3. Somehow, brit musk semi is even weaker than spain semi, because you barely outboom (because Spain can send 5v), and Spain gets more shipments.

[Qosashvili93]

Whats u should do as spain vs oto

[chronique]

I have my own build, or i semi 5 mousket/5pik and age (arround 8.40), or i am doing 700w/8pik/5vili/700g (age arrounf 9.30 but you can kill the tower and the rax with that).

Not sure if it work at pr40 but i won the last 5 games againt tower rush with this kind of bo. The question is, "can i adapt if my opponenet doing other shit".

[[Armag] diarouga]

I have my own build, or i semi 5 mousket/5pik and age (arround 8.40), or i am doing 700w/8pik/5vili/700g (age arrounf 9.30 but you can kill the tower and the rax with that).

Not sure if it work at pr40 but i won the last 5 games againt tower rush with this kind of bo. The question is, "can i adapt if my opponenet doing other shit".

Well, it obviously wouldn't work vs a jan/abus build and Brit can't up at 8:40 with a 10musk semi.

[Kaiserklein]

In my eyes tower ff is basically only good whenever you know your opponent will have to stay colo and will struggle to kill falcs. Whenever I'm playing a (semi-)ff civ and I scout the tower age up I'm just happy honestly. Gives you time to do whatever you want for a while, otto won't abuse stagecoach too early, and you already know what's coming (jan falc).
Obviously it's the lowest strat in the game though, you need 2 brain cells and 3 apm to execute it.

[[Armag] diarouga]

In my eyes tower ff is basically only good whenever you know your opponent will have to stay colo and will struggle to kill falcs. Whenever I'm playing a (semi-)ff civ and I scout the tower age up I'm just happy honestly. Gives you time to do whatever you want for a while, otto won't abuse stagecoach too early, and you already know what's coming (jan falc).
Obviously it's the lowest strat in the game though, you need 2 brain cells and 3 apm to execute it.

That's because you mostly play semi ff civs though that can counter tower ff on 3 TP maps.

[chronique]

Well i change my mind, i can't beat ff tower just because behind he can go age 4 and i cant punish it with semi ff. Tbh, otto is so boring to play againt, i realy hope there won't be civ like that on aoe4.

[Garja]

On EP it is nerfed enough that you should beat it with almost all civs.

[VooDoo_BoSs]

Imagine, when pros from other RTS games return to aoe3 after DE is out, and they all realize they're going to get pr 40 in 3 days by learning tower FF. Despite never playing the game before.
Billions of maps with tp line and no tc radius. Oh boy.

Ep8 babe

Is there a source for this?

[TheNameDaniel]

On EP it is nerfed enough that you should beat it with almost all civs.

I love your responses, especially on twitch. You're always like this MU is fine, I love the positivity keep it up