Mirror Matches

User avatar
Australia Malocite
Crossbow
Posts: 29
Joined: Apr 11, 2020
ESO: Malocite

Mirror Matches

Post by Malocite »

So Edeholland printed me to post this.
If two pro players decided to mirror match each other, would it or would it not be beneficial to do something random or Off-the-usual strategy of that particular civs options to throw your opponent off? Doesn’t have to be absolutely wild, just enough to make them rework what they’re doing.

Thoughts?
User avatar
European Union Scroogie
Lancer
Posts: 740
Joined: Dec 5, 2015
ESO: Scroogie
GameRanger ID: 10056919

Re: Mirror Matches

Post by Scroogie »

U wanna go for the optimal strat most of the times imo. This depends on the mu. Brits/Russia means forward base, France means Huss semi, Japan means whatever the fuck japan does, Dutch means boomy (semi-)FF, Spain means PIROSHIKI, China/Iro means FF, India means nothing, cuz noone plays them anymore, Sioux means semiFF, and so on.
Me being slightly ahead vs H2O: Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Mirror Matches

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Malocite wrote:So Edeholland printed me to post this.
If two pro players decided to mirror match each other, would it or would it not be beneficial to do something random or Off-the-usual strategy of that particular civs options to throw your opponent off? Doesn’t have to be absolutely wild, just enough to make them rework what they’re doing.

Thoughts?
1. The standard strats are standard for a good reason. In most mirror matches, there's a strat that counters all the others, so you should go for that.

HOWEVER
2. In some MUs (like China mirror, India mirror, Japan mirror) there are multiple standard strategies, so it doesn't have to be a pure mirror.
3. Unstandard strats can catch your opponent off guard in some mirros (Germany, Russia etc), so if your opponent doesn't expect your unstandard strat, it can work.

Still, in many mirrors, going for a random strat is simply not viable. For instance, in Fre mirror, you kinda have to play standard (3 huss rush is viable I guess but easy to scout).
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Mirror Matches

Post by Hazza54321 »

which is why i highly disagree mirrors are skill based. its just whoever nerds the best build in it
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: LĂŒbeck

Re: Mirror Matches

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Hazza54321 wrote:which is why i highly disagree mirrors are skill based. its just whoever nerds the best build in it
Or finds better treasures.

Mirrors=ResidentSleeper
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Mirror Matches

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hazza54321 wrote:which is why i highly disagree mirrors are skill based. its just whoever nerds the best build in it
People usually refer to mechanics when they say skill. And it's true to say that the player with the better mechanics is often going to win, because there's very little strategy involved (as you do the same strat every game).
Treasures are big in some mirros still. Like if you get your fb denied because your opponent got natives/food treasures it sucks.

I guess it's true that nerding the best build is important, but if you come up with a better build order, then you deserve to get an advantage, and else you can just copy the other players' builds.
No Flag Astaroth
Howdah
Posts: 1037
Joined: Jul 21, 2019

Re: Mirror Matches

Post by Astaroth »

It depends on the MU and your opponent. If your opponent is a good player who scouts, you basically HAVE TO go for the optimal build. Unless the mechanical skill difference is too big, then you can just hope for an upset.

I also disagree that mirror = skill. As Hazza says, it's just about the best BO and the best mechanics. But mechanics =/= skill in an RTS - it's just a part of skill. Knowing the best mirror build is also not a great strategic accomplishment if that BO is common knowledge.
User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Re: Mirror Matches

Post by Darwin_ »

There are a number of mu's where there are at least two strategies that could counter one another if played correctly, most of the time it is deciding between a colonial or a fortress build, e.g. otto rush vs. ff, ger 700w dopp timing vs. normal semi, dutch 10/15 huss (+8 pike too sometimes) timing vs. normal semi, japan ashi attack timing vs. 600w 4v 600c 2 fa semi, etc... If you scout them playing standard and you think you have better macro and grand strategy, then play standard yourself. Otherwise, I like playing non-standard as it generally forces scrappier games where you have a greater ability to take control of the tempo, of course at the risk that your opponent could as well.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV