How do you counter the Germans

[Churlish1]

Hello all,

I've been having difficulties playing against the Germans. If I try to ff into them with other strong ff civs, they always turn out with a more powerful mass from there shipments and I get steamrolled. If I try for colonial play, they just pop a unit shipment and maybe train a batch uhlan or dop and it is enough to hold my pressure until they steamroll me harder in fortress. Are there any strong matchups, BOs, or general strategies that I should use when playing into Germany? Also, are there any little tricks that I should know about that will help me particularly against the Germans. Thank you all.

-Churlish1

[fei123456]

In RE it's a bit difficult to deal with them: you need some pike/musk to defend uhlan raiding and kill his TP early, then switch into musk huss/musk pike timing, or a semiFF with mass dragoon. RE Japan/India are good counter to German imo.
In EP 8.2, just go hussar semi and win. 5 hussar > 7 uhlan, dragoon > war wagon: every hussar civ counters German hard now.

[Churlish1]

Alright thanks for the advice. In RE as India would you suggest defensive Agra in base and trying to out eco the Germans with Otto consulate and the trickle shipments and training sepoy to counter uhlan raids? Should I aim to make it fortress as India? Or, should I apply early pressure and try to take him down? Thanks for the advice, I just struggle into Germany.

[Rohbrot]

RE sepoy rush is scary, do that imo.

[fei123456]

In RE just go sepoy rush. If you'd like eco play, zamburak is better against raiding: sepoy are kinda slow, and uhlan has 30% resistance.

[dansil92]

Heavy infantry rushes just generally work exceptionally well vs germany. Xbows suck and they dont get musks. Always check their deck, if there isnt 8 xbows you can 100% musk rush and if there's 8 bows just push until that is sent and then retreat amd age yourself knowing germany has to wait like another full minute for a shipment. Sepoy are probably the strongest option but i love rodeleros vs germany too

[duckzilla]

Alright thanks for the advice. In RE as India would you suggest defensive Agra in base and trying to out eco the Germans with Otto consulate and the trickle shipments and training sepoy to counter uhlan raids? Should I aim to make it fortress as India? Or, should I apply early pressure and try to take him down? Thanks for the advice, I just struggle into Germany.

Didn't play India for a long time, but you should be able to win this by doing an aggressive Agra, ideally placing it on hunts/mines close to the German base to prevent him from gathering there. Then send sepoys as first shipment + spam further sepoys from Agra. Focus on his eco and maybe take down houses which are not covered by his TC range. If he manages to age, you can add sowars from Agra or age yourself. Put as much pressure as possible without wasting your units.

[Sargsyan]

In EP 8.2, just go hussar semi and win. 5 hussar > 7 uhlan, dragoon > war wagon: every hussar civ counters German hard now.

?

[Challenger_Marco]

Just play British

[Plantinator]

Heavy infantry rushes just generally work exceptionally well vs germany. Xbows suck and they dont get musks. Always check their deck, if there isnt 8 xbows you can 100% musk rush and if there's 8 bows just push until that is sent and then retreat amd age yourself knowing germany has to wait like another full minute for a shipment. Sepoy are probably the strongest option but i love rodeleros vs germany too

Yeah well just keep an eye out if ger goes Saloon on like Half of the maps they basically can make abus then (;

[Squamiger]

i've had a lot of luck with the China FI against Germany at the 1st lieut level. I kept losing with a FF, since the German player's timing would outmass me. But I figured out that if I FI'ed and held pressure, I could usually get in my age 4 unit shipments in time and then crush their push, and then just win bc China is so strong in age 4

[chronique]

Just play iro and rush toma lol.

[Kaiserklein]

Heavy infantry rushes just generally work exceptionally well vs germany. Xbows suck and they dont get musks. Always check their deck, if there isnt 8 xbows you can 100% musk rush and if there's 8 bows just push until that is sent and then retreat amd age yourself knowing germany has to wait like another full minute for a shipment. Sepoy are probably the strongest option but i love rodeleros vs germany too

I mean, there isn't a german deck without 8 bows. It's one of these cards you should have in every single deck, it's not an option, just like e.g 700w.
Anyway, a musk "rush" doesn't work at all vs germany if they opened barracks. And even if they open stable they're able to hold most musk rushes with mm, tc fire, 8 bows, uhlans etc. While also being able to raid you. This is why your plan, if you want to hurt germany in colo that is, should include somewhat early cav. Cav allows you to catch the raids, to force a fight without getting kited to death by xbows, and to possibly punish skirms if germany was able to age.

[chronique]

Musket rush can work vs german (especialy at this level), how many time i won against pr 33+ with mousket rush all in as spain. And here we talk about lowest ranked player on re (mean usless xbow, not sure if better uhlan matter a lot).

Kaiser give too advenced tips, who can micro xbow in base and raid in same time? surely not pr 20 player. If you want improve, the best way is too learn one good all in build (like all in mousket or all in falc build) and try other stuff when you start face better players.

In your situation, pick iro, india or otto (or tell us what civ you want play), and spam toma / sepoy / jan all in, its ez, bot style (that mean you will improve in term of mechanic, which is the most important stuff). German is pretty weak against mousket at your level because uhlan are not great in fight and xbow is not cost efficient againt them without decent kiting. Also, at this level players do a lot of mistakes under pressure, so pure mousket type unit is the best option.

[Hazza54321]

musk rush is quite shit vs germans not gonna lie

[Guigs]

If you want improve, the best way is too learn one good all in build (like all in mousket or all in falc build) and try other stuff when you start face better players.

Totally disagree, you never gonna improve if you spam all in builds

[chronique]

Totally disagree, you never gonna improve if you spam all in builds

Yea u will learne a lot of stuff if you stay pr 20 ^^. Its the same in sport, spam the same simple stuff again and again and again until you mastered it perfectly, and then, you can learn other stuff.

[Guigs]

Totally disagree, you never gonna improve if you spam all in builds

Yea u will learne a lot of stuff if you stay pr 20 ^^. Its the same in sport, spam the same simple stuff again and again and again until you mastered it perfectly, and then, you can learn other stuff.

Yep but don't go for stupid all in builds and learn the game mechanics instead ^^

[chronique]

All in stuff is the best if you want learn the basic, ofc at some point is not enough but 90% of ppl here are not good enough in term of basic and its prob the case here. You can't realy give pr 35+ advice at someone who are less than pr25.

[dansil92]

Heavy infantry rushes just generally work exceptionally well vs germany. Xbows suck and they dont get musks. Always check their deck, if there isnt 8 xbows you can 100% musk rush and if there's 8 bows just push until that is sent and then retreat amd age yourself knowing germany has to wait like another full minute for a shipment. Sepoy are probably the strongest option but i love rodeleros vs germany too

I mean, there isn't a german deck without 8 bows. It's one of these cards you should have in every single deck, it's not an option, just like e.g 700w.
Anyway, a musk "rush" doesn't work at all vs germany if they opened barracks. And even if they open stable they're able to hold most musk rushes with mm, tc fire, 8 bows, uhlans etc. While also being able to raid you. This is why your plan, if you want to hurt germany in colo that is, should include somewhat early cav. Cav allows you to catch the raids, to force a fight without getting kited to death by xbows, and to possibly punish skirms if germany was able to age.

Yeah see, while this is true at your level, this is garbage advice for leut level, honestly. Theres not a single leut out there who can actually micro crossbows and raid at the same time, thats why they're at the level they're at. Crossbows are trash at my (his) level and i can tell you i see many german decks without that card at leut/captain level because why ship them when you'll just lose them for almost free? Besides if you do force germany to send 8 bows thats a win in itself most of the time

@chronique is correct on this one for this particular situation

[Kaiserklein]

Yeah see, while this is true at your level, this is garbage advice for leut level, honestly. Theres not a single leut out there who can actually micro crossbows and raid at the same time, thats why they're at the level they're at. Crossbows are trash at my (his) level and i can tell you i see many german decks without that card at leut/captain level because why ship them when you'll just lose them for almost free? Besides if you do force germany to send 8 bows thats a win in itself most of the time

@chronique is correct on this one for this particular situation

This is such a wrong way to look at it. With that kind of reasoning, we'd advise everyone to just play otto and jan rush at this level. Cause hey, it works right?

No, the OP was asking about how to properly play against germany. And that's what I told him. If he's trying to improve and understand how to play the game, it's not gonna happen with shitty musk rushes and hoping opponent has no 8 bows for some reason. And btw it's by trying hard yourself (microing xbows, raiding, etc) that you improve. Not by thinking "hey I'm too slow so I can't do anything but musk rushes"
Besides, forcing 8 bows is not a win if you're stuck in age 2 yourself with only musks and no way to punish germany's age up, or if you lose musks to the bows.

[Kaiserklein]

All in stuff is the best if you want learn the basic, ofc at some point is not enough but 90% of ppl here are not good enough in term of basic and its prob the case here. You can't realy give pr 35+ advice at someone who are less than pr25.

Trust me I didn't go into details and gave pr35+ advice. I literally gave basic advice about how to counter germany generally speaking. Telling him to just train musks and hope it works is the wrong answer.

In your situation, pick iro, india or otto (or tell us what civ you want play), and spam toma / sepoy / jan all in, its ez, bot style (that mean you will improve in term of mechanic, which is the most important stuff).

Actually won't improve at all doing that. Go on RE and see how many dudes are stuck at pr25 just rushing on shit maps every game.

[Churlish1]

Not that I think that cav isn't a good way to defeat the Germans, but I'm still concerned about how I can keep up with them once their in fortress. Their shipments just overwhelm me. Is targeting their tp in age II while also raiding with cav a viable way to deal enough damage in age II? How do I make sure that the damage I deal in age II is enough to win?

[chronique]

This is such a wrong way to look at it. With that kind of reasoning, we'd advise everyone to just play otto and jan rush at this level. Cause hey, it works right?

This is exactly the best way too improve. If i need to teach the game at someone who have never play and want improve quiclky, i will teach him how double rax jan and nothing else untill he is pr 25 (ok maybe the tower ff). With that, you will learn the very basic. If you can't reach this level with simple build like that, that mean you are not good enough too learne other stuff. This is how it work in sport, and there is no reason why it should be different in video game.

Anyway i said what i think, people can do whatever they want with it (and when i see rohbro pr 36 after 3 month of practise with me, i will stay on my position )

[Kaiserklein]

Not that I think that cav isn't a good way to defeat the Germans, but I'm still concerned about how I can keep up with them once their in fortress. Their shipments just overwhelm me. Is targeting their tp in age II while also raiding with cav a viable way to deal enough damage in age II? How do I make sure that the damage I deal in age II is enough to win?

Well that's kinda hard to answer as it depends a lot on the map and match up. If you want to understand better how it works, watch some streams I'd say. Basically you'd have to hit a strong timing with musk / cav in colonial, to kill his colonial army and idle him or get some houses / vils kills. Then probably age up yourself behind, and you're ahead if you did enough damage.
That kind of timing can be achieved with for example 4 cdbs (start rax or stable) / 700w (add the other building and houses) / 700g (get big batches out) / 3 huss (push now and try to do damage). But that's a little bit harder to understand