Xb/pike vs musk/huss

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Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Little_Hussar »

Pretty simple if both micro perfectly who comes out on top?
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

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Post by Hazza54321 »

musk huss
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Zutazuta »

musk huss
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by princeofcarthage »

Musk Huss
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Mitoe »

Musk huss
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by dansil92 »

on paper all the pikes and huss die and all thats left Is musks and bows, so the bow pike wins. In practice this like, literally never happens and musk huss wins. Rip china colonial
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

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Post by Zutazuta »

dansil92 wrote:on paper all the pikes and huss die and all thats left Is musks and bows, so the bow pike wins. In practice this like, literally never happens and musk huss wins. Rip china colonial
That's not correct. The huss use their speed advantage to soak damage and run around the pikes. On paper, all the pikes die and all that remains are half HP huss (which is fair because the musk are fighting against a "non-counter") and xbows. With good micro from there, the xbows can kite a bit, but use their speed advantage to eventually win. Even with perfect micro (doesn't exist), the huss still win, but only by a little.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by iNcog »

xb/pike
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

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Post by minimoult21 »

In theory skirm/goon. In practice, Jat lancers.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by fei123456 »

crossbow+pike win small-scale fights. If the amount of xbow is just enough to one shot a musket (8 at least, 10-15 in real game), they can defeat musk huss with proper micro.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by chris1089 »

Is it good to put pikes in cover mode in front at all?
Edit: in these kind of fights
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

In low numbers (less than 20-25 units), xbow/pike wins because you can hit and run almost perfectly. In big fights however, musk/huss just wins because a click with musks is pretty good.
Assuming perfect micro, I'm pretty sure 10 bow/10 pikes beat 10 musks/4 huss.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by CuCkO0 »

musk huss
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by lordraphael »

with perfect micro. bow pike should win actually, if equal res on both sides. even in larger battles. in practice musk huss.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Mitoe »

I don't agree about bow/pike winning with perfect micro. Muskets just counter pikes harder than bows counter muskets, on top of doing great damage to bows just the same for comparable cost. The only time bow/pike has an advantage is at the start of the fight when bows can abuse their range for the first 1-3 volleys, after which the range advantage is completely negated by snare and they just become poor units compared to muskets, on top of huss being far more micro-able than pikemen.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mitoe wrote:I don't agree about bow/pike winning with perfect micro. Muskets just counter pikes harder than bows counter muskets, on top of doing great damage to bows just the same for comparable cost. The only time bow/pike has an advantage is at the start of the fight when bows can abuse their range for the first 1-3 volleys, after which the range advantage is completely negated by snare and they just become poor units compared to muskets, on top of huss being far more micro-able than pikemen.
With small unit count, 3 volleys are more than enough to get a decisive advantage.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Mitoe »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Mitoe wrote:I don't agree about bow/pike winning with perfect micro. Muskets just counter pikes harder than bows counter muskets, on top of doing great damage to bows just the same for comparable cost. The only time bow/pike has an advantage is at the start of the fight when bows can abuse their range for the first 1-3 volleys, after which the range advantage is completely negated by snare and they just become poor units compared to muskets, on top of huss being far more micro-able than pikemen.
With small unit count, 3 volleys are more than enough to get a decisive advantage.
Not if you split pull your muskets :)
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mitoe wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Mitoe wrote:I don't agree about bow/pike winning with perfect micro. Muskets just counter pikes harder than bows counter muskets, on top of doing great damage to bows just the same for comparable cost. The only time bow/pike has an advantage is at the start of the fight when bows can abuse their range for the first 1-3 volleys, after which the range advantage is completely negated by snare and they just become poor units compared to muskets, on top of huss being far more micro-able than pikemen.
With small unit count, 3 volleys are more than enough to get a decisive advantage.
Not if you split pull your muskets :)
Haha. Assuming the musk player can do that, I guess the bow/pike player can split pull his bow too. Pikes are slower than huss, but still, the bow player should get 3 volleys.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Mitoe »

Regardless, huss are the champions of the fight because they have the most micro potential, take little damage from bows, and should take minimal damage from pikemen usually while the muskets melt them.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Goodspeed »

Really hard to judge how perfect micro would change things because there is so much you can do with perfect micro. You could stagger mode the pikes that are being targeted by the musks since you can technically tell which ones are being targeted, then the musk player can anticipate that and retarget, etc.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Kaiserklein »

Really needs to be low amounts for bow pike to win yeah. Small mass just makes cav weaker, basically in a scenario with only 5 huss or so, they'll probably end up dying before they can snare all the bows, because of the free shots bow pike gets by kiting (and possibly not even having enough musks left to one shoot a pike when you're finally really able to engage).
In bigger fights, it just feels like the huss won't die, and the ball of musks will catch up and z move everything.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

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Post by Aizamk »

Bow pike only ever loses if you don't have enough pike, because once pike are down the xbow get rekt by the cav.
That's why you want a high enough % of pike in your composition.

I usually go with 100% pike.
oranges.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by princeofcarthage »

On a side note more interesting comparison would be skirm harlb vs Musk Huss
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Kaiserklein »

No it wouldn't be more interesting since no one cares about skirm halb
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by princeofcarthage »

Whether one cares or not doesn't make something less interesting or more.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.

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